I would appreciate help with “An Odaisé” again:

“Ach chím lena n-éagantacht feinig leanta acu á dtarraingt anuas orthu féin thar a gcionn faid a mhairid.”

Thanks in advance!

Ach chím lena n-éagantacht feinig leanta acu á dtarraingt anuas orthu féin thar a gcionn faid a mhairid:

Yet I see them, for as long as they live, being demeaned by their own foolishness which has followed them.

Go raibh maith agat! Very interesting, would you say “thar a gcionn faid a mhairid” is roughly equivalent to “for as long as they live.” I didn’t realize “cionn” could be used that way.

I would parse it as follows:
Ach chím lena (n-éagantacht feinig leanta acu) á
(dtarraingt anuas orthu féin thar a gcionn) (faid a mhairid):

Thanks Aonghus,

I would never have got that far. I'm still a little puzzeled. In the focloir examples of "thar ceann' it means "for the sake of (something)" and refers to the following noun. "Thar cionn" means excellent.

In this phrase (dtarraingt anuas orthu féin thar a gcionn) ceann is is in the genitive and it is eclipsed so I guess it literally means "for their sake?" It just seems redundant. Couldn't one translate (dtarraingt anuas orthu féin) as "bringing down on themselves" with or without adding "thar a gcionn" ?

Perhaps it is redundant but added for emphasis?

Where I translate "bringing down on themselves" I hope I am close to Seosamh's "has followed them."


I appreciate your help!

The straight answer is I'm not sure. I hope Seosamh comes back with more detail, my parsing may be wrong.

I think it's there for emphasis.

>>> it is eclipsed so I guess it literally means "for their sake?"

-Sea ‘their’; agus ní hea ‘sake’.

>>>It just seems redundant. Couldn't one translate (dtarraingt anuas orthu féin) as "bringing down on themselves" with or without adding "thar a gcionn" ?
>>>Perhaps it is redundant but added for emphasis?

-Déarfainn gur béimniú é ceart go leor. Measaim go dteastaíonn sé leis an gciall a iompar. I feel that it helps to avoid the figurative meaning.

>>>Where I translate "bringing down on themselves"

-It is reflexive, but not so figuritively. The reason I opted for 'being demeaned' is that 'tarraingt anuas' = being brought up for mention/ into conversation/ referred to. They shall be cited against themselves, rather than their being ‘brought down about/on themselves’.
Whatever it is they have said, or done, their foolishness (which may have preceded the sentence before us) the speaker sees that it is going to cause their being cited [to their detriment] against themselves in the future.

Tá súil agam gur cuidiú an méid sin.
(Tuis. Tabharthach i ndiaidh an réamhfhocail ‘thar’ atá san ‘o’: ‘g/cionn’.)

I think I've got it, Seosamh.

Tá mé buíoch díot as do chúnamh!