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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (April-June) » Current currency « Previous Next »

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Karena Green (69.136.71.37 - 69.136.71.37)
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Everyone else may know this, but how is the Euro now incorporated into Irish? Does it follow the grammatical rules of phunt? Does it not mutate numbers, following the rules for vowels? Is it said as Euro? Is Euro cents still called pence?Thank you for the advice. Karena

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia duit a Karena,

Good question. I was reconsidering this question recently. I realised during the last fortnight that I'm the only one in my circle who still uses 'punt' and 'cianóg' for 'Eoro/Euro' and 'cent'.

When I mentioned to someone recently, ''Punt' a thugaimse ar sin i gcónaí', the comment with a smile, was 'Ó thugas é sin faoi deara cheana.' This means that I have become a bit of an exception!

The non-use of grammatical rules with the Euro is a fairly sure indicator that the old cap-tipping attitude is still vibrant in yet another aspect of Irish life.
A prime example of cap-tipping matterialized sometime in the 40s/50s in the sphere of sociolinguistic behaviour and is well known outside of Ireland as 'irelandization'.
Is it any wonder that there are qualms held, more strongly in Ireland than anywhere else in Europe, about the basic recognition of Irish as an official working language of the EU.

People like myself meanwhile have to live relegated to a limbo somewhere outside of the body of the EU, while they spend our taxes on their languages.

Mura mhiste a fhiafraí, céard a tharraing an cheist seo ort?

Seosamh

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 07:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There is a problem with the Euro in that bureaucrats attempted to regulate for the Euro being language independent.

It hasn't been in use long enough in Ireland for language usage to form, but it will.

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Maidhc Ó G. (67.27.48.179 - 67.27.48.179)
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Why not simply "An Eoró"? Unless they can come up with something truly unique to the language.
-Maidhc.

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Larry (217.42.48.187 - 217.42.48.187)
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Karena, a chara,

Just a couple of points on your questions...

The word "Euro", beginning with a vowel, would not be subject to aspiration as you would find in the word "Punt"...

Punt > one pound
Dhá phunt > two pounds
...
Euro > one Euro
Dhá Euro > two Euros

When counting the "punt" in Irish, you use the singular form of the noun. "Punt" is a regular noun and follows the normal grammatical rules for counting "things", but "pingin" (penny) is irregular and the rules change slightly.

Le meas,

Larry.

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OCG (82.69.43.131 - 82.69.43.131)
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

In general, AFAIK, in English people don't pluralise it, they say 20 euro, not 20 euros.

Some people cal it the "yoyo" .That'll set you back fifty yoyo!!

As Gaeilge, feicim Iúro mar litriú air. N'fheadar.

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karena (69.136.71.37 - 69.136.71.37)
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

To all who replied, my thanks. I thought it would be as per Larry's answer, but didn't know how "Euro" was said in Irish, or if it was said in Irish. Seosamh, sorry to acknowlege that even working with two dictonaries, your Irish quotes were only intelligible as fragments. I will keep trying and hope for enlightenment.

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.216 - 159.134.103.216)
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

aon euro
dhá euro
trí euro
ceithre euro
cúig euro
sé euro
seacht n-euro
ocht n-euro
naoi n-euro
deich n-euro


Singular: euro
Plural: euro
Singular genetive: euro
Plural genetive: euro

cent is pronounced "sent". Sound alterations are based purely on sound. Thus:

aon cent
dhá chent (pronounced "hent")
trí chent
ceithre chent
cúig chent
sé chent
seacht cent
ocht cent
naoi cent
deich cent

Singluar: cent
Plural: cent
Singular Genetive: cent
Singular Plural: cent

-Fear an mBróg

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.216 - 159.134.103.216)
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

My apologies. I just realized something there. There would be no spelling alterations at all! Thus:

aon euro dhá euro trí euro ceithre euro cúig euro sé euro seacht euro ocht euro naoi euro deich euro

Although there most definitely would be sound alteration, ie. I would say "ocht n-euro".

Similary with cent:

aon cent dhá cent trí cent ceithre cent cúig cent sé cent seacht cent ocht cent naoi cent deich cent

Although I myself definitely would be caught saying "dhá shent".

-Fear na mBróg
(Yes my last signature was a typo)

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Karena (69.136.71.37 - 69.136.71.37)
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for all advices. Still at question. What about 11 and up? Is it, as with punta, aon euro deag, dha euro deag, tri euro deag, and so on? I suppose I could just go around asking, "Ca mhead ata air seo?" until I find out. Go raibh maith agat. Karena

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us51066964 (24.61.127.231 - 24.61.127.231)
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 07:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I am probably incorrect, but how about

Cent amhán
dhá cent etc.

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Rómán (81.7.97.76 - 81.7.97.76)
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I am not specialist on euro, neither on Gaodhluinne, but I want to object to the myth, that holy "euro" shouldn't follow any grammar rules, because it is "language-independent". As you know in 3 weeks' time 10 new countries will join European Union, and believe me all of them have even more flective languages than the Irish. So there is a vivid discussion how to declinate "euro". Just for you information, the Poles have already made up their minds and decided that it will be neutrum (there 3 genders in Slavic languages) as it perfectly fits the paradigm, officially the word is not declinated yet. In Lithuania (where I come from) the masculine form "euras" is used (plural "eurai"), and NO ONE is suggesting that it shouldn't obey Lithuanian rules. In Latvian, there is no such sound like "eu", they only have "ei" (even Europe is "Eiropa" in Latvian) so they are using "eiro" now, without declination yet, but I think it is the matter of time before it becomes "eirs". So beware.

One small comment: I don't think you should say cent [sent] - doesn't follow any Irish logic. In Irish 100 is céad [k`iad] or [k`e:d], so don't understand why don't you want to say cent [k`ent]. Don't forget that Gaodhluinne and Latin were extremely close relatives. So Romans used to say centum [k`entum], why shouldn't you follow that tradition?

Open to all forms of criticism. At the moment, unfortunately, only in English.

Regards

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.103.10 - 159.134.103.10)
Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

cent, although spelled with a c, is said with an s. Therefore, when it's softened, it becomes a h.

There's an official EU PDF document downloadable from their site which contains all the defined names in all the languages! It specifies that the plural of "euro" is "euro", but that "euros" isn't an error, just a secondary alternative. Like sheeps.

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Rómán (81.7.97.169 - 81.7.97.169)
Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chara

Don't wanna to be rude, but your way of thinking makes me laugh: "There's an official EU PDF document". Lithuanian language is the most archaic of the living Indo-European languages, so it has survived through the ages and a threat of extinction in XIXth cent. not in order to have a doubtful honour of being regulated by Brussels. We are proud of our language and of its formal logic. ALL nouns are declinatable in Lithuanian (except some really exotic geographical names like Nauru or Vanuatu - in revanche even such "common" names like Zimbabve or Kongas (Congo), Kuko salos (Cook's islands) are perfectly declinatable). In the beginning of XXth cent. such borowings like kino (cinema), or radio, or palto (coat, from French paliteau) after some 10 years adopted Lithuanian endings and became kinas, radijas, paltas. We even routinely add Lithuanian endings to the names of foreign leaders when writing in Lithuanian: e.g. George'as Bushas, Jacques'as Chiraque'as. So believe me, never there will be "euro" in Lithuanian. It is already "euras" on the site of Ministry of Finance or Lithuanian Central Bank.

quote: "Like sheeps" - there's no such word, and you know it as well as I do.

quote: "cent, although spelled with a c, is said with an s". In France even oficially those are called "centimes" and in Italy "centimo". Why should you follow English pronounciation? Emancipate finally from English influence! The only Irish way to read is /k'ent/.

BTW: EU does not recognise the Irish as a working language. So if they don't care about you, why should you care about them? I am serious on this point.
Slán

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Fear na mBróg (159.134.100.59 - 159.134.100.59)
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 03:29 am:   Edit Post Print Post

And where do you think they get the spellings from?! From the people! I'm sure they have/will contact Lithuania and ask them what way they want it spelt.( or spelled!)

As for "like sheeps":

I saw about 20 sheeps up on the mountain yesterday.


Sure, it's an irregular word and really should be "sheep", but you're not going to crucify someone for saying it! Similarly with "euro".


As for pronouncing "cent" with a 'k', we may aswell say:

kircus
kease
kelibate
kement
kensor
keramic


Although in my Irish dictionary, "cent" is in as "ceint", which yes is pronounced as "kent". Perhaps "céat" would be better, but then we're back to the issue of Language Inspecific.


As for caring about the EU? This is merely a conversation about how, in An Ghaeilge, we will refer to the little thing called "euro"!

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 04:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Fhear na mB.,

Thug Rómán an-chuntas agus léirigh an-tuiscint ar ar tharla anseo (sa Ghaeilge) i dtaca le focal úrchumtha a ghlacadh isteach sa chaint agus sa scríobh.

Thagair sé do chroí na ceiste, ábhar a tharraing mo chaint féin isteach anseo mí Eanáir thuas mar: the old cap-tipping attitude is still vibrant in yet another aspect of Irish life.
Tá an ghné sin ann, taobh na síctheangeolaíochta. Nuair a mhaíonn Rómán:

We even routinely add Lithuanian endings to the names of foreign leaders when writing in Lithuanian:
e.g. George'as Bushas, Jacques'as Chiraque'as. So believe me, never there will be "euro" in Lithuanian. It is already "euras" on the site of Ministry of Finance or Lithuanian Central Bank;

caithfimidne cuimhneamh dúinn féin, go bhfuil an ceart ag na tíortha / na teangacha eile seo. Tá téagar agus seasamh a dteanga iontu.
Níl sa dream againne. Is uafásach gur glacadh le téarma seafóideach chomh réidh isteach in éadan ghnáthurlabhra ár muintire.

I mbeagán focal, léiríonn cuid mhór de mhuintir na Gaeilge gur dream faoi chois iad, nó ar mhaithe le muintir an bheagáin Ghaeilge:
a lot of the Irish speakers display that they are a subservient lot.

Tá na pointí sin go léir le cíoradh san fhocal euro.

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Aonghus (62.77.191.130 - 62.77.191.130)
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 05:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Rómáin,
the problem with recognition of Irish in the EU lies not with the EU, but with our own leaders who decided in 1972 that it would be too much trouble (and because the European civil service might take the language seriously and use it effectively, which would be a great embarrasment to our own lukewarm civil servants).

There is a chnace to change that now, and I hope it will be.

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Rómán (81.7.97.183 - 81.7.97.183)
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosaimh Mac Muirí a chara,

the last post of yours: as Béarla too, please. I will quote my lesson from the Irish text book, that you will understand how poor is my Irish by now:

"Tá cearc agus scian ag Nuala. Tá an chearc marbh. Tá sí sa phota". So you see with all my aspiration I can't understand what you have written.

go raibh maith agat
Slán

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