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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-June) » Genetive « Previous Next »

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Phil (159.134.209.102 - 159.134.209.102)
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm trying to figure out exactly how the genetive case works.

So first of all, could someone please tell me if the following is correct:


giota (masculine), cáca (masculine)


A piece of cake = giota cáca

A piece of the cake = giota an cáca

The piece of cake = an giota cáca

The piece of the cake = an giota an cáca


The first three look alright to me; It's the last one I have doubts about.


-

Dáta breithe Date of Birth

Áit bhreithe Place of Birth


See how there's a 'h' on bhreithe. Is that because "Áit" is feminine?


And what about the following:


Dáta an breithe Date of the birth

Áit an breithe Place of the birth


Are they correct? I didn't put a 'h' on either because "breith" is masculine.


--

Another quick question


blood = fuil

group = grúpa

So I would assume "Blood group" to be "grúpa fola". But on my passport, it's written as "Fuilghrúpa".
Anyone make any sense of that?


--

Thanks,

-Phil

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 03:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I have a feeling that your getting mixed up between of as showing belonging and of as in "part of"
I'm not a grammar guru, but I'm pretty sure a piece of something is not genitive in the same way as say the color of something.

If you've a grammar book, it might be worth checking up on that.

The piece of the cake = an giota an cáca
I'd tend to write
An giota den cháca
(Actually, I'd use píosa rather than giota)

Also, my gut feeling is that it ought to be
"giota den cháca" for a piece of the cake.

Fuilghrúpa is a portmanteau word which means the same as grúpa fola

There just isn't one right way to say things in any language!

btw. According to an foclóir beag, breith is feminine.

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Phil (159.134.209.1 - 159.134.209.1)
Posted on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 12:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dáta na bhreithe
Áit na bhreithe

That right?

I'll come up with a better example than "piece of cake". I haven't alot of time right now.

-Phil

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 04:18 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm not sure about the seimhiú. I'll try and look it up.

The more I think about the other,
I'm fairly sure
definite article - nominative - definite article genitive
doesn't occur

It's hard to say without a whole sentence, but I can't think of any example.

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 04:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Phil
these pages might be some help:
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~eofeasa/level04/ceacht404/miniu/404f.htm

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~eofeasa/level04/ceacht404/miniu/404c.htm

See esp (from the top page)
"Some observations on the use of "an t-alt" with the tuiseal ginideach:
a noun governed by a noun in the tuiseal ginideach becomes a definite noun and so deireadh - - an end when placed before seachtain - - a week puts seachtain in the tuiseal ginideach: deireadh seachtaine which translates as "the end of a week" or "a week-end"

When translating "the end of the week" note that an t-alt is used only once in Irish "deireadh na seachtaine" The first word "deireadh" does not require the definite article "an" because it is governed by the tuiseal ginideach and thus becomes a definite noun. Deireadh na seachtaine translates as "the week-end" although under the influence of English "an deireadh seachtaine" is common.
"

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Phil (159.134.209.1 - 159.134.209.1)
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Me understand.

My a pen
My the pen

We don't do it in English either.

My pen

-Phil

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