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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (January-June) » Help - need a Gaelic Valentine Translation « Previous Next »

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Brian (205.188.209.13 - 205.188.209.13)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I know that "a stoir mo chroidhe" translates to "pulse of my heart"

and "gra mo chroidhe" translates to "love of my heart"

I'm looking for the one that translates simply to sweetheart - I think it's something like "cumale chroidhe" (pronounced q-ma-la-cree) but I'm not sure how to spell it correctly. Can anyone help in time for Feb 14th?

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (63.175.172.81 - 63.175.172.81)
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Bhrian, A Chara,

I'm not sure you want a literal translation for sweetheart (croí milis) because to a native speaker it would likely sound strange. An Irish term of endearment that captures the spirit of sweetheart is "a ghrá mo chroí" which is often translated as darling.

Another term translated as darling or sweetheart is "muirnín." If one says my darling, its:

"mo mhuirnín"

Slán,
Pádraig

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'd agree
I don't know where you got cumale
The only word close to it I can think of is cumhal which is an old term for a female slave. Might not come across too well..

Another possible term would be "Taisce" treasure

A Thaisce (vocative)
Mo Thaisce

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Pádraig (205.244.12.160 - 205.244.12.160)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Bhrian,

I just noticed that you're pluralizing heart in your post. "chroídhe" instead of "chroí."

P.

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Paul (66.152.218.225 - 66.152.218.225)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Perhaps
"Cuisle mo chroí"?
Not exactly sure re vocative, genitive, pH value, etc.
Maybe someone else could chime in...

Paul

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Irish has a thing called the vocative which is a case used when "calling" somebody - usually preceded by "A"
so your suggestion would be "A chuisle mo chroí"

But I have to say that to a native ear that sounds distressingly flowery

I'd go with Pádraig's "a mhuirnín"

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Pádraig (205.244.12.153 - 205.244.12.153)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phól, A Chara,

You're okay with 'mo chroí' for "of my heart." The nominative and genitive are the same in this case. Somehow 'cuisle' feels weird, though. Isn't that used in a more clinical context, like the pulse the doctor takes in your wrist?

Like saying "you're the desire of my miocardial muscle."

P.

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Brian (131.156.255.251 - 131.156.255.251)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks, all. My knowledge of Gaelic is limited to maybe three or four phrases. What's "A Chara"?

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 07:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chara is a greeting which introduces the beginner to two confounding aspects of Irish grammar: The vocative and lenition.

Cara is an Irish word that translates as "friend." "A" is a part of speech called the "vocative particle" and is loosely translated as "O" as in "O friend, where are you going?"

When a noun beginning with a consonant follows the vocative particle it is lenited, that is, the rule of lenition is applied.

Lenition is the adding of an "h" after the initial consonant thereby softening the sound of that consonant. Hence, the Irish word for lenition, Seímhu ("soften").

That's what I love about Irish. Unlike many other languages, you are forced to face and grasp the complexities of Irish from the very beginning.

An example of this is the simple aspect of greeting someone in Irish.

Dia duit, a Sheamus. This forces you to grasp not only lenition ( A Sheamus) but also the prepositional pronoun (do + tu = duit).

Welcome to Irish!

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Oliver Grennan (193.122.47.162 - 193.122.47.162)
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Just wondering,

isn't "croidhe" the old style spelling for "croí"?. The "dh" signifying an accent on the "i". I've often seen "oíche" spelt as "oidhche" (note no fadas used). Anyone got more info?

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (63.161.61.120 - 63.161.61.120)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia Dhuit, A Shéamais

When a noun beginning with a consonant follows the vocative particle it is lenited, that is, the rule of lenition is applied.

Is it with all nouns beginning with consonants, or is it only masculine gender nouns. The reason this sticks in my mind is one time I asked about the word "cailín" being aspirated and I was told that cailín is actually a diminutive and as is the case with all diminutives, it is masculine, and because it is masculine, it is aspirated; ie,
A chailín.

I hope this doesn't open another can of syntactical worms, but isolated from classroom instruction, you lads (notice how few of the gentler sex post here?) are the only ones I can ask questions of. How's that for ending a sentence with a preposition, an infraction up with which the like of most grammarians will not put.

Slán agat,
Pádraig

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phádraig,

I can't speak from much authority, only from my casual observation. I would say that in the vocative the lenition is demanded regardless of gender. I've seen feminine names lenited in the vocative and I've seen the word for mother, Mamaí, lenited in the vocative. These are but a few examples that lead me to believe all words beginning with consonants are lenited in the vocative. Now, having said that, I realize these might be words that, while indicating a feminine subject, may actually be masculine from a grammatical perspective.

I would be very interested in a more scholarly, and less subjective, explanation. Frankly, A Phádraig, based upon other postings of yours, I would defer to your opinion. You seem to have a far better grasp of the language and its grammatical nuances than I do.

Le meas,

James

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Pádraig Mac Gafraidh (205.244.12.176 - 205.244.12.176)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Fan bomaite, a Phádraig! One can of worms at a time is é go leor é.

A Shéamis, you're right. The rule for the vocative states: "the particle A is placed before the noun and the initial consonant is aspirated." Of course there are exceptions. It's Irish, isn't it? "A Liam" comes immediately to mind. So, a chara, go back to what your were doing.

I was confusing the rule governing aspiration of nouns after the definite article, and you wouldn't dream of how complicated that can get. Just for openers:

Feminine, singular, nominative (but not masculine) nouns are aspirated after "an."
Masculine, singular genitive (but not feminine) nouns are aspirated after "an."

I have a daughter who spent last summer at Oideas Gael. She said it was commonly believed that the instructional staff met each morning before sunrise to make up new rules of grammar to teach that day.

Cad é ba mhaith leat, ubh i do bheoir?

Pádraig

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Seosamh (206.112.42.77 - 206.112.42.77)
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phádraig,

They didn't meet to make up new ones. They met to talk about the rules that they were forced to make up in class the day before, so that they could coordinate their stories.

Seosamh

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James (209.48.182.219 - 209.48.182.219)
Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phádraig,

Regarding "A Liam"--remember, there are 4 consonants that cannot be lenited: L,H,N,R (Little Hands Never Rest). Therefore, Liam,in the vocative cannot be lenited and therefore is not an exception to the rule, it follows the rule.

(See what cool stuff Noel McGonagle has taught me!!! I LOVE this book!!!)

Le meas,

James

Oh, the Little Hands Never Rest is my memory aid, not McGonagle's

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