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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (July-December) » Pronounciation « Previous Next »

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Br James (eli-208.186.190.229.dslextreme.com - 208.186.190.229)
Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm examining the "Rule of Saint Maelrúain" and want to know how to pronounce 'Maelrúain.'

And also (so as not to start too many topics), is the literal translation of Céli Dé and Céle Dé 'Companion of God?' Or are those even Irish words at all? I had always assumed they were, but I'm new ...

Le meas,
Séamas

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James (209.48.182.219)
Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Céile (note the spelling difference) does translate as companion. I would suspect you are looking at Old Irish or a mis-spelling of Modern Irish.

I would venture Maelrúain to be pronounced "Mail - roon".

That's just a guess, though. Get some one else's input before you take it as accurate.

Le meas,

James

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Br James (eli-208.186.190.19.dslextreme.com - 208.186.190.19)
Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

It would be Old Irish indeed, if Irish it is at all. The Rule dates back to probably the 7th century, but I've yet to uncover it's origins geographically. I am inclined to believe it to be of Irish origin because monks (and nuns) under the Céli Dé Rule were to be tonsured by 'an imaginary line, extending from ear to ear, thus shaving the front part of the hair.' The tonsure, for men, was to be maintained monthly, on the last Thursday, whilst nuns were to let their hair grow back after the initial tonsure.

Monastic traditions abroad wore the more familiar 'crown' tonsure (such as Benedictines, Franciscans, etc) and Irish monks in general were said to have 'let the hair grow long in the back, keeping the front shaved.'

Sorry for getting off topic a bit, but those are my reasons for believing "Rule of Saint Maelrúain" to be of Irish origin, and thus the Order of the Céli Dé according to the Rule to be founded in Ireland.

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I had always thought that Céile De meant "client of God", client as in a vassal in that they aknowledged only a celestial lord in contrast to the "mannaig", who were often not true monks but legal and economic dependents.

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James (209.48.182.219)
Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:40 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Thomas, A Cara,

You may be right. I'm new at this and am taking my translation from an earlier exchange in which Céile was taken to mean companion.

As with all things Irish, I'm sure there's more than one meaning assigned to the word and context is everything!!

Le meas,

James

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes, that is very true, James. There is often more than one meaning and companion is certainly one meaning of Céile,as is "spouse". In this context I'm fairly certain that it means "Client" but of course I could be wrong as well :)

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Tomas OCathain (pc-62-31-117-97-ud.blueyonder.co.uk - 62.31.117.97)
Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Br James, a chara,

I got caught up in the translation side but I guess I should give you all I know about your topic:

Mael rúain was most definately a notable Céile Dé, an Irish aecetic of the 8th Century who died in 792AD. In 774AD he was founder and abbot of Tallaght.The Tallaght documents describe his regime featuring prayer,vigils, the divine office,fasts, mortifications of the flesh,strict sabbatarianism,and care for the poor. They reflect differences of opinion. Mael rúain's insistence of total abstinence from alcohol was rejected by the abbot and bishop of Finglas, who said his congregation would also attain heaven...despite their consumption of beer!
How far the Céile Dé were a novel reformist movement is debatable, for their practises are consistent with the aescetic tendency found Irish religious litreature as early as the 6th century.Although the critisiced the worldliness of the older churches they were often dependent on them. However the Céile Dé were also involved in high politcs and inter-church rivalry.The Céile Dé were occasionally noticed at various churches in the 9th century. By the 11th and 12th centuries, the headship of the Céile Dé at Clonmacnoise was a heriditary office.

I hope this gives you a bit more background, Séamas .

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Br James (eli-208.186.190.142.dslextreme.com - 208.186.190.142)
Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks for your info, Tomas. It was very helpful! Now I have a better idea of where to go with Mael rúain's rule, it's implications, etc. I'm beggining a study of Irish monasticism, and trying to uncover the various attitudes of different monasteries and religious orders.

~Séamas

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