mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (July-December) » Help with correct Irish pronunciation « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki McGovern (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is there anyone who could give me the correct ( phonic ) pronunciation of the word seduction in Irish? Thank you

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

We're trying to use the word in the name of an Irish Wolfhound, but would like to know the correct way to say it before we do. Thank any of you that will help.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (m17-mp1.cvx1-a.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.100.17)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 05:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

With many Irish words a lot depends on context and tone.

The word MEALLTACHT is the one that springs to my mind as a translation of SEDUCTIVE.

ie Ceol Mealltacht- seductive music( alluring/gives great pleasure)

However MEALLTACHT also means 'beguiling' and sadly can have (depending on context) the negative vibe of 'deceptive' too if used in a particular way. We certainly would not want the hound to carry that burden though his life.

You say you are trying to use the word 'IN THE NAME' of the wolfhound. Can you let me know what you mean by 'in the name' as if we can get the right context we may come up with the right word.

Also is the dog male or female?

Anyone else got any ideas out there???/

Alec

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (m75-mp1.cvx1-b.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.104.75)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Jacki-

I'm interested in this 'cos I have a Irish Red Setter myself called 'Oisín'.

Tá suim agum son ábhair seo toisc go bhfuil 'Setter' Rua agum darbh ainm 'Oisín'.

I know this is not really what you want but a simple word(both in terms of meaning and pronounciation) which would apply to a wolfhound is 'Mórga' meaning 'Majestic'.

MORE-GA

Madra Mórga= Majestic Dog
Modrah More-Ga

Cú Mórga = Majestic Hound

(Cú as in the last syllable Cuckoo)

alec

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The dog is a female and her Registered name will be Proctor's (Seduction of) Thar Barr. Proctor and TharBarr are both kennel names > the breeders and ours. Or we also thought about doing it this way Proctor N Tharbarr's (Seductress) but I have not been able to come up with the Irish word for Seductress at all. Any helpt would be greatly appreciated.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

We used to have a great aunt in Ireland that would help us with these things but unfortunely she has passed on. We miss her greatly, she was a wonderful woman.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (m169-mp1.cvx1-a.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.100.169)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Do you mean The Seduction of Thar Barr by Proctor?

a

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Yes that's what we were thinking

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (m32-mp1.cvx1-b.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.104.32)
Posted on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

In that case I would go with

Mealltacht Thar Barr faoi Proctor

Mealltacht is difficult to pronounce

think of the word 'gal' from southern states - and get in your head

Then a very very quick Me before that sound

Me-all (gal sound)

then Tacht- don't even think germanic
Think of a quite words to a sleeping baby slow and easy

tacht

Mealltacht - you got it?

ok

Faoi-- worse again. Impossible to give the real aoi sound


it's a real broad FWEE


I posted a request to the all Irish room asking about the Irish word for 'seductress'.

But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply.


Elitism doesn't like to get its hands dirty.


alec

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you so much Alec. I know what you mean aobut elitism. I have tried on this board before for answers and not gotten a reply even. I really appreciate your help.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (m6-mp1.cvx1-b.dub.dial.ntli.net - 62.254.104.6)
Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I 'coulda' been a bit wrong about elitism- two lovely people
Josie agus Rónán replied to my cry for help about 'Seductress'-but were not able to advance on Mealltacht.

On rethinking -I suggest you leave out the word FAOI

and just go with the FANTASTIC name

MEALLTACHT Thar Barr by Proctor

sounds just great to me

alec

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jacki (dhcp024-210-130-216.woh.rr.com - 24.210.130.216)
Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

will do thanks again

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mariano (pd9575375.dip.t-dialin.net - 217.87.83.117)
Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I am from Germany and I am writting a report about Dublin, and I need the correct pronunciation of "Baile Atha Cliath" and "Dun Laoghaire". Can someone help me, please? Thank you very much!!! (I need it for today or tomorrow)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seosaimhín Nic Rabhartaigh (cache-dq08.proxy.aol.com - 205.188.209.140)
Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidin maith Jacki,

S'é an Ghaeilge atá ar "beguiler"/ "enticer"/"seducer" ná
"mealltóir": (Foclóir Uí Dhónaill)
The Irish for "beguiler"/seducer" etc. is "mealltóir": (Look in "O Dónaill's Dictionary)
Beguilement/Allurement/Seduction: mealltacht (also "meallacacht")
Alluring/enticing/charming: (the adjective) is "meallacach" ("meallta" in Donegal Irish)

S'é an Ghaeilge a chuirfinn féin ar "seductress" ná "bean meallta" nó "bean meallacach" ach ní feidir sin a dhéanamh más faoi ainmhí (sa chás seo, madra) atá sibh ag labhairt.
I myself would call a "seductress" " bean meallta", but you can't use this expression when talking about an animal ( in this case a dog).

In fact, how sensible is it to try to describe a dog as a "seductress" in any language? (It flies in the face of what is known about human sexuality vs. the reproductive behaviour of animals)
However the use of "mealltacht" in the broader sense of "beguiling"/"enticing" is acceptable in this context.

To get the meaning you want "The Seduction of Tharr Barr by Proctor" I would suggest you use Alec's suggestion but replace the preposition "faoi" with "le"
mar "bíonn duine meallta le rud"

"Mealltacht Tharr Barr le Proctor"

This still leaves some problems grammatically as the rules for two nouns coming together call for the use of the genitive case for the second noun, in this case "Thar Barr" but that would involve changing the spelling of the dog's name, which I guess would not be acceptable on an offical document, so I will just leave it "Tharr Barr" and live with it.
(Incidentally, I guess you got the kennel name "tharr barr" from the Irish "thar barr" meaning "outstanding" or "tip top".That means you have turned an adjectival phrase made up of a preposition "thar" and a noun "barr" into a proper noun. This "invented" noun, appearing as it does in two parts presents difficulties/opportunities for debate amongst grammariand when trying to put it into the genitive case.)

You see how tricky this wonderful language is!

I hope all this helps a little bit.

Slán go fóill,
Seosaimhín

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

alec1 (212.2.183.122)
Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks very much for the time and effort put into that post Seosaimhín.

I was a bit unsure about the 'faoi' myself and as you will see in my final suggestion I went for the easy option of reverting to the english 'by' -which in the context I think fits in pretty well!

But I like 'le' too!


slán

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Josh (dialup-209.245.2.60.dial1.denver1.level3.net - 209.245.2.60)
Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Print Post

What is the correct pronunciation of Fir Na Tine. and can anyone tell me how to say my name in Irish.......Josh

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

James (63.102.168.144)
Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'll give this a shot but rest assured the two gentlemen most active in this thread will be the final authorities.

Fir Na Tine = Men of Fire = Firemen

Fir prounounced like the Englis word Fear (Feer)

Na pronounced like Nah

Tine proununed like teeny but with an "ah" or "uh" sound on the end Teen-ah Teen-uh.

Alec agus Seosaimhín,

How'd I do?

Le meas,

James

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis (12-228-16-237.client.attbi.com - 12.228.16.237)
Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

First off, if "firemen = fire fighters" is what is intended, the proper term is "fir dóiteáin".

As for "fir na tine", English "fear" is probably close enough for the first word, but "na" is "nuh", not "nah"; and saying "tine" as English "chin" + "uh" would likely produce a more recognizable pronunciation.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis (12-228-16-237.client.attbi.com - 12.228.16.237)
Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I just reread what I wrote, and noticed a lapse:"fir dhóiteáin" would be more correct, I think, with lenition after a slender plural. Singular: fear dóiteáin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus (p59-30.as1.dla.dublin.eircom.net - 159.134.59.30)
Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Or to be gender neutral "Lucht muchta dóiteáin" - those people who put out fires!

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge