http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-leaving-cert-irish-still-be-compulsory-2011 -02/

Fine Gael propose dropping the requirement.

I was a bit surprised that of 800+ replies, 55% are in favour of retention. Tá grá don tenaga ann fós, buíochas le Dia

Sílim féin gurbh amhlaidh gurbh iad mo leithéidí agus iad siúd atá dubh dóite den Ghaeilge atá i gceist anseo. Dhá mhionlach atá beagnach ar chomhmhéid. Tá an scéal ag scaipeadh ina measc siúd atá báúil don teanga ar Twitter, rphoist agus rl.

Shamhlóinn go bhfuil an rud céanna ag tarlú i measc an dreama eile.

@ Suaimhneas - out of 1300 replies, those voting to keep the requirement are up to 71%

A more formal Poll:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0209/irish.html

quote:

61% of respondents are in favour of compulsory Irish up to the Leaving Cert, according to a new survey by Ipsos/MRBI for Comhar na Muinteoirí Gaeilge.

quote:

The age groups 15-24 and 25-34 were the most favourable towards compulsory Irish and those in the 55+ age group were the most negative.

More on that Poll:

http://insideireland.ie/2011/02/10/61-ar-son-gaeilge-eigeantai-7707/

quote:

De réir na dtorthaí mheas 65% gur fiú tuilleadh ábhar a mhúineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge i mbunscoileanna le páistí a spreagadh leis an teanga a úsáid níos minice. Agus i measc an aoisghrúpa 15-24 bliana d’aois – mheas 79% gur fiú tuilleadh ábhar a mhúineadh trí Ghaeilge i mbunscoileanna.

Má thugtar droim láimhe don chéad ábhar de bharr a dheacrachta, dhéanfaí amhlaidh d'ábhair eile ar ball.

Agus ní dóigh liom gurb é meon na leisce agus an mhífhoinn chun deacrachtaí a shárú atá ag teastáil ag an tír i láthair na huaire.

Good point Ormondo. Beidh an Ghaeilge ar aon dul le ceol ar feadh cúpla bliain agus ansin le Laidin nach múintear mórán anois agus ansin le Gréigís nach múintear in aon chor in áit ar bith in Éirinn go bhfios dom. Droch-obair atá beartaithe ag Enda Kenny. Chuirfeadh sé Quizling i gcuimhne dom...

quote:

I was a bit surprised that of 800+ replies, 55% are in favour of retention. Tá grá don tenaga ann fós, buíochas le Dia

Táimse i leith abhar roghnach a dhéanamh don nGaelainn chuin na hArdteiste. Tá grá agamsa don dteangain. Masla is ea é a chuir i leith duine ná fuil grá aige don dteangain mara dtagann sé leatsa.

quote:

Sílim féin gurbh amhlaidh gurbh iad mo leithéidí agus iad siúd atá dubh dóite den Ghaeilge atá i gceist anseo. Dhá mhionlach atá beagnach ar chomhmhéid. Tá an scéal ag scaipeadh ina measc siúd atá báúil don teanga ar Twitter, rphoist agus rl.

Nílimse mar dhuine "dubh dóite den Ghaeilge". Táimse báidhiúil leis an dteangain (báidhiúil/báúil LEIS an dteangain!!!).

quote:

Agus ní dóigh liom gurb é meon na leisce agus an mhífhoinn chun deacrachtaí a shárú atá ag teastáil ag an tír i láthair na huaire.

Ni haon "leisce" ná "mífhonn" athá ormsa, a pháidínigh!

quote:

Beidh an Ghaeilge ar aon dul le ceol ar feadh cúpla bliain agus ansin le Laidin nach múintear mórán anois agus ansin le Gréigís nach múintear in aon chor in áit ar bith in Éirinn go bhfios dom.

An bhfuileann tú ag admháil gurb é an t-aon taobh amháin go labhartar Gaelainn in aon chor sa Ghalltacht ná go gcuirtear ceanglas ar dhaoine dá n-ainneoin staidéar a dhéanamh uirthi chuin na hArdteiste? Cá bhfuil na céadta míle cainteoir laethúil Gaelainne a gealladh ach ar bunaíodh an Stát? An bhfuilid siad go léir i bhfolach i mball éigineach?!

quote:

Chuirfeadh sé Quizling i gcuimhne dom...

Is beag ormsa Fine Gael ach níor chóir "Quisling" a bhaisteadh ar dhaoine ná fuil ar aon tuairim leatsa!

(Message edited by carmanach on February 12, 2011)

Ba cheart an Ghaeilge a chur isteach mar ábhar éigeantach sna Sé Contae go dtí scrúdú atá cosúil leis an dTeastas Sóisearach sa Phoblacht! Taispeáineann cás na Breatnaise nach bhfuil an scéal seo docheaptha inniu sa Ríocht Aontaithe má tá dóthain brú ar a shon ann.
Is dóigh liom nach n-athródh an mhéid sin sa Phoblacht agus an scrúdú éigeantach na Ghaeilge a fhágáil san Ardteist. Inniu, is iad na daltaí sin le suim sa teanga a bhfuil fíor-chumas ar an nGaeilge acu. Ón aois sin, is cur amú díchill atá ann i gcás daltaí le drogall at an dteanga.
Céard is gá go príomhá ná múineadh éifeachtach i ngach aon scoil.
Ach i gceantair in aice leis an nGaeltacht, ba cheart an riail láithreach a choinneáil. Agus ar ndóigh, laistigh na Gaeltachta, ba cheart a mhúineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge amháin. Sna Sé Contae, d'fhéadfaí an Ghaeilge a mhúineadh go héigeantach go dtí fágáil na scoile má ghlacann an comhairle áitiúil cinneadh ar a shon.

Alex

Would FG's policy effect Irish-medium schools?

Yes. It would remove the advantage for students going there. This would take away from the attractiveness of the schools, and weaken them as a result - since schools need a critical mass for recognition by the Department of Education.

It appears that the students came out in some force against Fine Gael Policy

http://ow.ly/i/8ar6

http://yfrog.com/h73e1tbj

NB. People who were at the demonstration consider the 200 mentioned in that last article to be a grievous underestimate. The photographs also suggest that it is.

RTÉ reporting it as over 500 students

quote:

Over 500 students protested outside Leinster House this afternoon against attempts to end compulsory Irish in the Leaving Certificate.

They marched from there to Fine Gael headquarters where they handed in a petition signed by 15,000 people. The protest was organised by the Union of Students of Ireland.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0214/election_tracker.html

Thanks for the updates, Aonghus. It is good to see some feet on the ground letting them know their proposals are sorely mistaken.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0214/breaking47.html

More coverage.

I will repeat what I wrote above in Irish:

What about compulsory Irish in the Six Counties until the exam which is comparable to the Irish Junior Certificate? If the local council takes the referring decision, it oould also be taught compulsorily all along school time.

I do not think that would change much in the Republic. Only those who are interested in the language have and will have a real competence in it.

What is needed primarily is effective teaching in every school.

Alex

Beocheist an lae inniu:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0215/1224289830368.html

And the article as it was in the print edition

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0215/1224289827771.html

quote:

What is needed primarily is effective teaching in every school.

Obviously. However, subjects not seen as valuable or easy points fodder do not get taught effectively.

Irish & Maths are merely symptoms of a greater problem.
Tinkering with symptoms cures nothing.

quote:

What about compulsory Irish in the Six Counties until the exam which is comparable to the Irish Junior Certificate?

Even in unionist areas?

quote:

Even in unionist areas?

Especially in Unionist areas!

(Message edited by Hugo on February 15, 2011)

Thaat's a good article by Seán Ó hÉalaí, Aonghus. GMA.

I know youngsters from Eastern Europe who are better at Irish than anyone else in the class.

Fr McGréil's studies on prejudice in Ireland might shed some light on it. Suppose all Irish children were obliged to learn Ullans / Ulster Scots or the language of the travelling community.

Going on the old adage that oppositions don't win elections but that governments lose them I would say the new government will not have a mandate for such a decision.

Mr Kenny talks of "a period of consultation with stakeholders" after which they will make Irish optional. I suggest that the only "consultation with stakeholders" that would be valid would be a national referendum North and South. Otherwise I do not think he nor anyone else has a mandate to degrade the status of the language in such a fashion.

It took centuries to get Irish back into the education system after the period of conquest and colonisation. Surely there should be some serious "consultation" with the whole population before interfering with such a historic achievement by those who have gone before us, people who paid dearly for it in voluntary work and risking their lives.

Of course the big decision has been well prepared for: abandonment of the Coláistí Oiliúna; abandonment of Irish as a medium in the teacher-training colleges (all except Marino?), abandonment of Irish in the Junior classes of the Primary schools, abandonment of Irish as a requirement for the civil service, and so on. All delivered with sugary protestations of love for the language and eagerness to see it prosper. Talk about death by a thousand cuts.

I hope Fine Gael's partners in Government defy them on this.

Such a decision would be worse than those that led to our loss of financial independence.

Spot on Jeaicín as Irish isthe national languageofIreland to remove it from the Leaving Cert would need a referendum. Fine Gael seem to have no informtion on which to base their idea of optional Irish for the Leaving Cert as all the polls of young people indicate support retaining compulsory Irish. Fine Gael cannot produce figures as to how by removing compulsory Irish the stated figure of 250,000 daily Irish speakers in the 20 year strategy can be achieved.
Fine Gael are likely to appoint Frank Feighan as the new Minster for Irish, there is no Gaeilge option on their website with no Irish language articles at all and all their press releases relating to Irish are in English-- says it all really!!

And yet Fine Gael seem to have great support locally in the fíor-gaeltacht area of Corca Dhuibhne

Tacaíocht phearsanta de Séamas Cosaí.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0217/1224290023212.html

quote:

What is unsettling about the policy is its blatant disregard for research on language education. One would have expected that policy would be informed by good practice in other countries.

Second language learning is compulsory in every country in Europe, except Scotland, for very good reasons. The somewhat naive argument put forward by Fine Gael that a stronger emphasis on the spoken language in the junior cycle will ensure greater numbers of motivated students will proceed to Leaving Cert has been firmly discounted by the English experience.

Last night I brought up Fine Gael with my wife, who has no linguistic experience. She said, in response to dropping Irish as a requirement on the Leaving Cert, that no one would take Irish. Now that is a bit too extreme, but even my wife's inexperienced common sense could figure this one out. She then called me a nerd when I uttered various Irish phrases to my son. Long live common sense!

People concerned with the lack of effectiveness of the teaching of Irish as it exists and who honestly endeavour to improve matters by considering even radical changes to the status quo should not fall into the trap of siding with those who are also contemplating radical changes just because these propsals might coincidentally bear some resemblance with their own. These proposed changes are by no means the fruits of serious, honest and benevolent analysis but the unfortunate manifestation of a willingness to win votes by cheaply pandering to certain weaknesseses and vulnerabilities with regard to populistic promises about getting away with laziness and lack of effort.

And believe you me, this rot, once started, would not stop at Irish.

(Message edited by ormondo on February 18, 2011)

Maith thú, Ormondo.

Well said, Ormondo. Well said.

The Unionists in the six-counties are at least openly hostile to the promotion of the Irish language as a living language and make no attempt to conceal it. They are at least honest.

This so-called policy is hypocritical.

It professes to serve the objective of improving the status of Irish in society -- a status honoured in our Constitution, in our Official Languages Act 2003, in the EU, and in more than a century of sincere selfless educational effort by so many -- while in reality it is no more than -- to repeat Ormondo's words -- "the unfortunate manifestation of a willingness to win votes by cheaply pandering to certain weaknesseses and vulnerabilities with regard to populistic promises about getting away with laziness and lack of effort."

I have some radical views about education and I don't personally support compulsory education of any subject. I believe that there are better ways to motivate the children's learning. I think people should look into alternative education systems like Waldorf schools, anarchistic free schools and homeschooling cooperatives.

However, as long as compulsory education exists in Ireland at all, Irish should be the last subject to go! It makes more sense to remove English. :-)