Tráthnóna maith agat, Daltaí,

I sent an email to someone in Gaelige (not very good Gaelige) and in their reply they said;

"Samual, a chara,
Beatha 'gus slainte chugat!"

I quite like translating but I am having trouble with this.

Firstly, is the way he typed my name a typo (in English it is spelt "Samuel") or is changing the e to an a something to do with grammar that I have missed? "A chara" means something like "dear", does this usually go after the name in an email or letter because I have been typing everything "a chara [Name]" with a comma.

I can understand the gist of it but I don't know what he means when he uses 'gus, is this some way of saying; "agus"?

I would be most appreciative if someone could help me!

Sam

Edit:

I was reading the topic at homographs posted by Aonghus and it got me thinking. Are there spell checkers for Irish for Microsoft Word or any other word processing package that I can download/buy? I have everything else on my computer in Irish so would be useful to switch between language spell checkers.

(Message edited by sam2000 on January 18, 2011)

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Firstly, is the way he typed my name a typo (in English it is spelt "Samuel") or is changing the e to an a something to do with grammar that I have missed?

No except he omitted the vocative particle so it should be "A Samuel".

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"A chara" means something like "dear", does this usually go after the name in an email or letter because I have been typing everything "a chara [Name]" with a comma.

"A Chara" means literally "Oh Friend" with the vocative partilce "a" before "cara" meaning "friend". Note how the vocative particle lenites the initial c of "cara" - we write a h to indicate the lenition. This is very common. If you want to say "Dear Samuel" in a letter you must write it in the following order: "A Samuel, a chara,". If you write it "A Chara, Samuel", you are saying "His Friend, Samuel"!

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I can understand the gist of it but I don't know what he means when he uses 'gus, is this some way of saying; "agus"?

'gus is just agus and means "and". "Is" is also very commonly used instead of agus.

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Beatha 'gus slainte chugat

This means "Health and life to you!" and is a common blessing. Note though that it's "sláinte" with an acute accent called a síneadh fada on the a to show that's it's long: sláinte.

quote:

Are there spell checkers for Irish for Microsoft Word or any other word processing package that I can download/buy? I have everything else on my computer in Irish so would be useful to switch between language spell checkers.

I've never used a spell checker in my life and have no intention of doing so. I believe that unless you are a professional translator who needs to translate hundreds of pages a month and has strict deadlines, spell checkers are the lazy man's way of not looking up a dictionary to find out the correct spelling. Checking your dictionary regularly is a great way to learn new words and mastering the spelling rules of the language. English spelling is a total mess and so a spell checker can be useful. Irish spelling, though, is much simpler than English once you know the basic rules so a spell checker isn't really necessary. I know that there are Irish spell checkers but how good they are, I don't know.

Also, while I'm on this subject, the word "mhaith". The only time I've ever really used it is in the context of "ba mhaith liom" or something to that effect, "I would like". Someone told me, and they were being very complimentary (and lying, I imagine, but it was nice anyway) "Tá tu ana mhaith ar fad sa Ghaelige."

Does the word "mhaith" in this context mean "good"? Would a more literal translation, therefore, of "ba mhaith liom" be "it would be good to have"?

Does the word "thampla", in the context of "As thampla, in Arás na Gael...", mean "an example". It isn't in my dictionary spelt like this so I am guessing from context. A translation of the above sentence being something like; "An example would be the 'Arás na Gael'...". I am slightly confused with this. Should this be "Áras na nGael"? Is this a dialectal thing? I get very confused with the different dialects when I am speaking to people or reading on the internet...

Having plugged it into Google this is a language club (which is what I was asking for!) in Galway?

I have never been to Galway and I have never looked at the Connacht dialect before...

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Does the word "mhaith" in this context mean "good"? Would a more literal translation, therefore, of "ba mhaith liom" be "it would be good to have"?

Yes, "maith" means good. "Tá tú an-mhaith sa Ghaeilge" means "You are very good in Irish". In "ba mhaith liom" we have the past/conditional form of "Is maith liom". "Is maith liom" is the equivalent of "I like" in English but note that what the Irish speaker is in fact saying in the structure "Is maith liom" is that "I think (something) is good", in fact it's word for word "is (considered) good by me" and "Ba mhaith liom dul abhaile" is literally "It would be considered/felt good by me to go home" or as we would say in English "I would like to go home". This structure with is + adjective/noun + le + pronoun is widely used in Irish:

Is fearr liom é = "I consider it better" = I prefer it
Is gráin/fuath liom é = "I consider it a hateful thing" = I hate it
Is breá liom é = "I consider it lovely" = I love it
Is mian liom é a dhéanamh = "It is a wish of mine to do it" = I wish to do it

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Does the word "thampla", in the context of "As thampla, in Arás na Gael...", mean "an example". It isn't in my dictionary spelt like this so I am guessing from context. A translation of the above sentence being something like; "An example would be the 'Arás na Gael'...". I am slightly confused with this. Should this be "Áras na nGael"? Is this a dialectal thing? I get very confused with the different dialects when I am speaking to people or reading on the internet...

Well, "thampla" is a misspelling of "shampla", itself "sampla" with lenition on the s. I'm not sure what "As shampla" is meant to be. It would appear to be "mar shampla", literally "as an example" - "for example" in English. Yes, it should be "Áras na nGael". Omission of lenition and eclipsis is a very common mistake by learners. Well spotted!

Thank you, Carmanach, I posted something else while you were typing your reply.

I very rarely use the spell-check in English. I tend to just use it as an indicator for bad spelling and then attempt to work out how it is actually spelt myself. I find spelling very difficult in English, especially since the language is a complete mess. With Irish my spoken language is useless because I find pronunciation difficult, not so much the sounds but just I instinctively use Anglophone pronunciations. I have learnt a lot of vocabulary but my grammar is poor...I am good at learning words but I haven't had the time to properly study grammar yet, which is a shame because I imagine I'd quite enjoy it.

I haven't found the spelling particularly difficult in Irish so far because, unlike English, it doesn't contradict all levels of logic. However, I do make stupid mistakes sometimes (such as omitting fada's or not doubling up letters) which I don't notice and people are too polite to point it out! If I have to look it up in a dictionary I just tend to copy it out (attempting to make it grammatically correct too). It's words which I do know and don't look up and just type. Because my pronunciation isn't good and I haven't much opportunity to speak I know what a word looks like visually but not audibly. Much of what I type in Irish I am not entirely sure how to say it. Like I said, it's still so instinctive to pronounce it the Anglophone way.

Is omitting the vocative case quite common?

Surely it is as much effort typing "'gus" as "agus"? if not more so because you have to hit shift...! The use of "is" instead makes sense, I have seen that used a number of times.

I think I saw that phrase in my book, now I think about it. Is it something you'd commonly hear in the Gaeltachtaí?

Thank you for all of your help, it really is most appreciated, people like you make things so much easier!

"No except he omitted the vocative particle so it should be "A Samuel"."

Is it customary not lenite non irish given names in the vocative case?

Also, how much used is the vocative case today..is it still used?

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Like I said, it's still so instinctive to pronounce it the Anglophone way.

You won't be alone there! LOL

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Is omitting the vocative case quite common?

Nowadays, yes, particularly with younger Gaeltacht speakers.

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I think I saw that phrase in my book, now I think about it. Is it something you'd commonly hear in the Gaeltachtaí?

Which phrase? "Ba mhaith liom"? Yes, it's very common.

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Thank you for all of your help, it really is most appreciated, people like you make things so much easier!

It's a pleasure. That's very kind of you to say so. Please post more queries you may have about grammar, spelling etc.

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Is it customary not lenite non irish given names in the vocative case?

You're right. Non-Irish given names are normally not lenited. "A Damian!", "A Sarah!" etc.

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Also, how much used is the vocative case today..is it still used?

Yes, it's still used a lot particularly with older speakers - in Corca Dhuibhne, anyway. Apart from given names you find it in many other circumstances; insults "A stumpa ('madáin)!" (You f*cking idiot!), the ubiquitous "boy!": "Cogar i leith chugam, a bhuachaill!" (Come over here to me, till I tell you, boy!), surprise, wonder, astonishment "A Mhuire Mháthair Dé!". Many other nouns are inflected for the vocative.

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Are there spell checkers for Irish for Microsoft Word or any other word processing package that I can download/buy? I have everything else on my computer in Irish so would be useful to switch between language spell checkers.

Open Office is available in Irish and comes with a spell checker:

http://ga.openoffice.org/

The same spell checker is available for the Firefox browser, which is also available in Irish.

http://www.mozilla.com/ga-IE/firefox/

These are both free. Being a lazy engineer, I use them both.

For those in thrall to Microsoft, there is this spell & and grammar checker

http://www.cruinneog.com/

Carmanach,

I meant the phrase; "Beatha agus sláinte chugat" rather than "ba mhaith liom".

When you say that omitting the vocative case is common with younger Gaeltacht speakers is this akin to English person omitting a comma or something from written speech? In English there is no vocative case, at least, no vocative case that causes any morphological changes to sentence. In written speech we would just indicate it by leaving a pause, indicated by a comma in writing.

I think I might try and be purist before omitting grammar...

Thank you, Aonghus.

To say "thank you" I have seen people on here and elsewhere just write "maith agat". Is this more akin to saying "thanks" in English?

I've got OpenOffice on my computer because I am a poor student and refuse to contribute any more to Microsoft than I already have. I'll certainly be getting that! Google Chrome doesn't seem to have any different language options so I may be tempted to switch to Firefox.

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To say "thank you" I have seen people on here and elsewhere just write "maith agat". Is this more akin to saying "thanks" in English?

Kind of. Or like saying "ta".

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I meant the phrase; "Beatha agus sláinte chugat" rather than "ba mhaith liom".

Yes, it's commonly used.

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When you say that omitting the vocative case is common with younger Gaeltacht speakers is this akin to English person omitting a comma or something from written speech?

Well, in traditional Irish we use the vocative particle "a" before a name and also inflect the noun for the vocative. This involves changing the ending in the case of most masculine given names (some don't change) but leaving feminine names untouched:

A Thomáis! = Tomás!
A Sheáin! = Seán!
A Shéamais! = Séamas!
A Phádraig! = Pádraig

A Mháire! = Máire!
A Shiobhán! = Siobhán!
A Shinéad! = Sinéad!
A Chaitríona! = Caitríona!

Most young people nowadays just follow the English pattern and drop the vocative particle, lenition and inflection.

Note, though, that the vocative particle wouldn't be heard anyway before a vowel but you would be expected to write it: "A Eoghain!"

Carmanach, I think I am right in saying the vocative particle is not heard before a lenited consonant either. Eg the pronunciation of "A Phádraig!" is just /fɑ:drigʹ/ and not /ə fɑ:drigʹ/. It might be heard in "a Liam!"...

You may be right. I would need to look it up.