A picture of one page of this is at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Elizabeth_I's_primer_on_Irish.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Elizabeth_I%27s_primer_on_Irish.jp g

Aparently she wasn't learning Conamara Irish :)

Ba cheart di Gaeilge Mhaigh Eo a fhoghlaim - ba le caint le Gráinne Ní Mháille a bhí sí ag foghlaim!

(Bhí Laidin aici siúd, ach ní raibh an teanga bharbartha sin Sasanais aici, dé réir dealramh. Ach is i ré Éilíse a bhris an Béarla amach as an gceantar cúng a bhí aige roimhe sin, pé scéal é)

Agus is dócha gur Gaeilge na Laighean a bhí ag Christopher Nugent, a scríobh di é.

There is a little Irish in Shakespeare,too.In Henry the Fifth the character Pistol sings a ditty 'Calen o custure me'.This is a corruption of the original of course.James Shapiro,in 1599- a year in the life of Shakespeare,gives the original as 'cailín óg a stór mé'.But I'm certain I have seen it read as 'Cailín ó cois tSúir mé'.Or 'Im a maid from the banks of the Súir'.


There is reference to it by another old writer whose name escapes me and it even became an opera 'Calleno Casturame' but again ,I can't recall the author.Mo leithscéal.So,bhí Gaelge ag Liam agus Eilís,who else had the cúpla focail I wonder?

Anybody at the time who had to do business in Ireland.

Latin would have got them some distance, but...

http://www.tcd.ie/Library/manuscripts/collections/music.php

quote:

MS 408, MS 410: the Ballet and Dallis lute books from the late 16th and early 17th centuries. The second manuscript contains Calleno Casturame, the earliest known notation of an Irish song, and Greensleeves, a popular Elizabethan English tune.

The song "Lillibulero" played over and over again on the BBC World Service Radio is also Irish: "An lile ba léir dhó - ba linn an lá."

I am not sure of the context but I think it means "[When] he saw the lily - the day was ours" i.e. we had won the battle. Was this an early use of the lily on a military flag or pendant? When did it occur. How did the song become popular among Unionists?

Tá alt fhada anseo, a mhaíonn gur aoir atá ann

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilliburlero

I would strongly doubt that that tune is played over and over again (or even ever, nowadays) by the World Service...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/faq/news/story/2005/08/050810_wssigtune.shtml

quote:

The tune 'Lilliburlero' is also a well-known part of our identity and has a long history and association with the BBC. It is played on the BBC World Service before the five-minute World News bulletin at certain hours. The current version was introduced in 2000 and is arranged by David Arnold and played by a string orchestra.

Doubt no more, Corkirish.

quote:

The tune of Lillibullero was adopted by the British Broadcasting Corporation's World War II programme Into Battle and became the unofficial march of the Commandos of the British Army. Since its association with the BBC's role in the war, various recordings of Lillibullero have been played by the BBC as an identity signal. These include a marching band and a symphony orchestra. The most recent recording, written by David Arnold and performed by a string orchestra, was until recently played on the BBC World Service several times a day. A shortened version is currently sometimes played just before the top of the hour before the news.

Source = Aonghus' wikipedia reference above.

You and I may view a different timeline. Mine goes back 40 years to when I worked abroad and had no other contact with home than An Braon Broghach by M. Ó C. and the BBC WS.

One night I heard that three "terrorists" had been shot in Derry. I woke up quickly to hear the next news -- the number had risen to five -- then seven -- and finally thirteen. I don't remember when I heard the word "civilians" used. Thinking back on it it was just as well I wasn't in Dublin. I would probably have been in Stephen's Green.

I don't listen even to BBC 4 as much now as I once did. They insist on punishing us Irish by broadcasting Cricket on longwave. Á, m'fharaor géar is mo mhíle chreach!

Now there's a word to test pronunciation "mo chreach". I'd listen to anyone who could pronounce that properly....

>>You and I may view a different timeline. Mine goes back 40 years to when I worked abroad and had no other contact with home than An Braon Broghach by M. Ó C. and the BBC WS.

------------------------------

Do you think there has been no employment turnover at the BBC in 40 years? Everything has changed over the past 40 years. A new group of people are in charge everywhere, and love 'em or loathe 'em, their views are totally different. I discussed the ascent to power of this new ruling class at http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/archives/1423

The BBC is totally against the Orangemen today. Believe me. I live in England and cannot bear to turn the BBC nowadays. That is not to say everything that happened in 1972 was great - my father was a soldier in Londonderry at the time, and he was asked to testify at the Savile Inquiry. He told me the ordinary soldiers (of which he was one) were very surprised when the Paratroopers arrived and started shooting, and so he himself put the blame on the British side, although he said some of the dead bodies had started decomposing, and it was suspected at the time that bodies dead for a while (killed by the IRA) had also been dumped on that day, in along with the ones actually killed by the Paras.

Believe me - the BBC is anxious to see a United Ireland. Actually, much more than RTÉ - or anyone in the Irish government who would be alarmed at the prospect (often the same FF people who pretend to be patriotic when it comes to garnering votes)...

My response would not appropriate to this website. Can you recommend another where such topics might be discussed? Dispassionately without anger or rancour.

As for Queen Elizabeth 1's Irish I wonder is there evidence of her having gone beyond "Quomodo habes?" Is that "Conas taoi?" in Latin?

I bet she couldn't pronounce "mo chreach" or "d'fhreagair" as they do in Cill Ghallagáin.

Well, there are many sites, but mainly WITH rancour. I am sure you can find some - boards.ie, politics.ie etc. I sometimes take part in discussions on the Libertarian Alliance site at http://libertarianalliance.wordpress.com/

But anyway, if you tell me Lilliburlero is the World Service's theme tune then I believe you! And I know Aonghus would want me to leave it there!

As for Lizzie 1 - I have no evidence that she learned Irish properly, but would love to see her primer published. I couldn't find anything else other than just one page in a JPG. She was an accomplished linguist in French, Latin etc, but may have found Irish a stretch - as do I!

I wouldn't be so sure she couldn't pronounce creach - the English word "laugh" had a "ch" in those days, like "lámhach".

Fágaimis siúd mar atá sé.

Well, you can get a look at it in Farmleigh

http://www.farmleigh.ie/Library/Accessing%20the%20Collection/

A Aonghuis,I could not get your TCD link to open on my clapped out pc.I read the song Cailín ó cois tSúir mé sounds a bit like the older version of Croppy Boy,ie the one John McCormack sings.Do they know what the tune sounded like and are the words preserved? Sorry to be such a pest,but this could be one of the oldest songs preserved.

I've no idea.

You can try googling the title; I saw it being discussed by Lute Players; more than likely there is an MP3 or youtube clip of it.