mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2011 (January-February) » Archive through January 05, 2011 » Niamh caib.30 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Corkirish
Member
Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 470
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 06:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I have now finished my study of chapter 30 of Niamh - just over the halfway point. That's it for me until after Christmas. But I have these queries:

quote:

Caithfear duine éigin a dh’fháil a bheith maith a dóthain di sa chleas so atá ar siúl aici.



Is bheith a typo for bheadh? Or are both acceptable?

quote:

Bhí rud eigin á chur ina luí orm i gcaitheamh na haimsire an fhaid a bhí sé á ollmhú féin chun an Chreidimh a ghlacadh ná raibh aon ghus san ollmhúchán. Bhí eagal orm dá ngéillinn don smaoineamh san go mbeinn ag déanamh éagóra ar an mbuachaill, bhí sé chomh simplí, chomh leanbaí sin, an ropaire! Ansan airís, nuair a duairt sé gur mhaith leis bheith ina shagart, tháinig an smaoineamh céanna chúm. Cheapas nár mhothaíos an gus ceart ina chaint ná ina mheon i dtaobh an ruda a bhí aige á chur roimis, dar liom. Thugas fé ndeara go minic folús éigin ná féadainn a thuiscint ins na gnóthaíbh Creidimh a bhíodh ar siúl aige. An lá a bhí Brian agus na huaisle thíos, nuair a tháinig an Leagáid, d’airíos daoine ag cáineadh agus ag gearradh na Lochlannach os comhair an Lochlannaigh óig. Bhí eagal orm go mbeadh fearg air. Níor chuir sé blúire suime ina gcaint, an ropaire fill! Is álainn a choimeád sé a aigne istigh, agus mise ag déanamh éagóra ar mo dhá shúil agus ar mo bhreithiúntas féin le heagla go ndéanfainn éagóir airsean.



Mise ag déanamh éagóra ar mo dhá shúil agus ar mo bhreithiúntas féin- I was doing an injustice to my eyes and my judgment when I didn't believe the evidence of my eyes -but what is a good translation for this? We don't say "doing an injustice to your eyes" in English.

The reason it takes me so long to study Niamh, is that I have the following routine:

1) type of the chapter in the original spelling
2) proofread the chapter
3) go gradually through it, modernising the spelling, and putting any words I don't know in my Dictionary of Cork Irish and putting in footnotes in Niamh to anything that is worth explaining.

The way I look up words is:

1) Look in Ó Dónaill's dictionary, and copy the gender, nominative, gender and plural into my Dictionary of Cork Irish.
2) Look it up in Dinneen's dictionary, and copy the seana-chló spelling into my Dictionary.
3) Look every new word up in the Irish of West Muskerry just in case it is there, to determine the pronunciation, and enter that in IPA in my dictionary of Cork Irish.
4) In cases where the morphology in Dinneen's is different from that of Ó Dónaill's dictionary, I often need to go scouting for forms. Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne is one source consulted. I often need to wordsearch Mo Sgéal Féin and Séadna to check the forms used there (and PUL doesn't always use the same form of the word). In desperation, I can wordsearch the English version of the Bible and see if it leads me to the correct form of the word in PUL's Gospels. Eg tonnta, "waves" is now listed as "tonna" in my Dictionary, as I found a passage in the English Bible mentioning waves and looked up PUL's equivalent [I don't have the 4 gospels fully transcribed in PUL's translation, you see]. Occasionally, I have found forms by wordsearching the english version of the Imitation of Christ and looking in PUL's translation.
5) frequently I cannot find attestation of every single genitive, and have to put a note in my dictionary to investigate further, preferably consulting old speakers in Coolea - so although there are 6000 headwords in my dictionary, more than 1000 are tagged with further information to check.

It is not unknown for a single word to take me an hour casting round for information. Of course, it would be quicker to learn the CO - you just look things up in Ó Dónaill's dictionary and you have your answer. I am learning more slowly, and forcing myself to be thorough with every word.

With 6000 headwords in my dictionary I am only rarely meeting new words in PUL (maximum 10 per chapter, down from 300 per chapter when I read Mo Sgéal Féin last year), but further nuances of words I have learned are cropping up and so I have to amend and amend my dictionary to give every little nuance. Eg the rud a chur chút - to put something away in your pocket or on your person - is made up of words I knew, but required separate mention in my dictionary.

Words entered in my dictionary are generally accompanied by a quote from PUL and my translation of the quote. I know Ailín has his own voluminous files based on the Irish of many speakers; my dictionary is based on the Irish of one person, PUL!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Corkirish
Member
Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 471
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 07:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The 30 chapters so far can be viewed and printed out at http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/niamh-in-modernised-spelling

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Corkirish
Member
Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 474
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 09:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

My Dictionary of Cork Irish (http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/my-irish-english-dictionary) now has 5,949 headwords, but I think you could say as many subentries again. I can't believe it is now 531 pages long! It is fully searchable.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grma
Member
Username: Grma

Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 12:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Thanks for posting both of these - I think it would be an understatement to say a lot of work went into both. Your treatment of Niamh so far in particular is very impressive - the footnotes are a great commentary.

What made you undertake such a labour of love, may I ask?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10933
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 04:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Is álainn a choimeád sé a aigne istigh, agus mise ag déanamh éagóra ar mo dhá shúil agus ar mo bhreithiúntas féin le heagla go ndéanfainn éagóir airsean.



He kept his thoughts perfectly to himself, and I denied the evidence of my two eyes and my judgement for fear of doing him an injustice.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Corkirish
Member
Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 476
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2010 - 04:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Good translation, Aonghus.

quote:

What made you undertake such a labour of love, may I ask?



Well, I think everyone would like to make a mark - leave something behind of lasting value. I would like to transcribe and edit into modern spelling the whole of PUL's translation of the Bible and find a speaker to read the whole onto MP3s and publish it with MP3 files on an audio CD (I think .cda files would require too many discs) - it would be a stunning legacy to leave behind when I "join the great majority" (nuair a raghad i slua na marbh), but unfortunately, Maynooth College won't give me access to the manuscripts, which are not ready to be consulted apparently.

But in addition to "leaving a mark", I see Irish as a challenge, and while some more able people have been able to learn it from abroad (think Panu Hoglund, think Lars Braesicke etc), I am having more difficulty with it than they and would probably need extensive one to one lessons to progress. But I like a challenge and don't want to let it defeat me!



©Daltaí na Gaeilge