quote:

“Tá an scéal go háiféiseach acu go léir,” a déarfadh duine eile. “Níl blúire binne ag Niamh ar éinne acu, amuigh ná i mbaile. Is measa léi a hathair ná aon fhear beo, uasal ná íseal.”

This is talking about all the nobles fancying Niamh and saying she is indifferent to all of them. But "amuigh ná i mbaile". This means "far and near", but what does it mean in context? Does it mean "no way, not on your life"?

quote:

Do thuig na ríthe agus na taoisigh, ó bhí san mar sin, gur cheart spórt agus caitheamh aimsire a chur ar bun, i dtreo, nuair a stadfaí i gcomhair na hoíche i gcónaí, go mbeadh rud éigin chun daoine a choimeád go suairc agus go
sultmhar.

I know "i gcónaí" means "still, always", but what does it mean here in "nuair a stadfaí i gcomhair na hoíche i gcónaí". What I mean is is "nuair...i gcónaí" an established phrase meaning "whenever" (=pé uair)?

quote:

Áit chun an uile shaghas cleasaíochta, idir rith agus léim agus iomrascáil agus caitheamh cloch araige agus tógaint ualaí troma, ab ea Ceann Cora an uair sin,

My query here is on "cloch araige". I know it means a game of casting stones (shot putt?) It is listed as cloch airgthe in Dinneen’s dictionary, where it is interpreted as derived from a corruption of airligthe, “tossed”. But Ó Dónall’s dictionary has cloch tharraingthe for a “light casting stone”, and maybe cloch tharraingthe is connected to cloch araige? Does anyone have a strong feeling on what the derivation is? What is araige?

Perhaps bound stone, stones that are bound together by something. Or leashed stones. Maybe one or more stones at the end of a leash.

I think it is the verbal adjective of ad-rig meaning "to bind".

(Message edited by seánw on November 23, 2010)

Seánw, I don't fully see the connection. Maybe it is just a phrase whose origin is unclear?

quote:

This is talking about all the nobles fancying Niamh and saying she is indifferent to all of them. But "amuigh ná i mbaile". This means "far and near", but what does it mean in context? Does it mean "no way, not on your life"?

Something like that, yes. Literally, "home and away" but acting as an intensifying expression: "She fancied none of them, irrespective of who they were".

Is measa liom m'athair ná éinne acu = I prefer

quote:

I know "i gcónaí" means "still, always", but what does it mean here in "nuair a stadfaí i gcomhair na hoíche i gcónaí". What I mean is is "nuair...i gcónaí" an established phrase meaning "whenever" (=pé uair)?

Whenever.

quote:

It is listed as cloch airgthe in Dinneen’s dictionary, where it is interpreted as derived from a corruption of airligthe, “tossed”.

Where does it say that?

"is measa liom" - I thought this meant, not "I prefer", but "I am more concerned about"?

Cloch airgthe - under airgthe on p24 of Dinneen's dictionary.

And cloch tharraingthe is under 1d under cloch in Dónall's. But it is defined "light casting stone". I don't know whether the "light" definition makes it slightly different. It may or may not be the same thing.

quote:

"is measa liom" - I thought this meant, not "I prefer", but "I am more concerned about"?

No. I prefer. See Ó Dónaill.

quote:

Cloch airgthe - under airgthe on p24 of Dinneen's dictionary.

Yes, I see that now. Thanks.

OK. Point taken.

Dónall's has under olc, p930.

7a) is measa liom mo chás féin, I am more concerned with my own case. Ní hé sin féin is measa liom ach, that is not what concerns me most, but.

7b) cé is measa leat? whom do you prefer? Is measa leis a mháthair ná a athair, he likes his mother better than his father.

I think, following what Ailín was saying, that 7b) is the appropriate way to interpret "is measa" with people, and 7a) about things.

Measaim go bhfuil cuid den cheart agat.

However "measa" as prefer can be used with things (or at least fish).


http://www.celticlyricscorner.net/domhnaill/faoitin.htm

"Is é an faoitín an breac is measa liom"

The preceding text makes clear here that "prefer" is meant.

Mo Sgéal Féin has this, two men arguing over which of them the young Peadar liked the best:

quote:

Seadh anois, a Pheadair, arsa Micheál Dubh,
ciacu againn is measa leat?

Is measa leis mise, arsa Labhrás.

Thugais d'éitheach, ní measa, arsa Micheál; "is measa leis mise," ar seisean.

Deirim-se gur bréag dhuit sin, arsa Labhrás;
is measa leis mise.

Cuirfidh mé geall leat, arsa Micheál, "gur measa leis mise."

Seadh, a Pheadair, arsa Labhrás, "ciacu againn is measa leat?"

Is measa liom tusa, arsa mise, "agus is fearr liom Micheál."

2 queries:

1. in line with what was said above about "is measa liom" meaning "I prefer", was PUL's response, "is measa liom tusa agus is fearr liom Mícheál" a tactful and sort of witty response with both halves of the sentence meaning the same thing?

2. Thugas d'éitheach. Dinneen has thugas t'éitheach, as if the d' is from the possessive particle. In this case it would be strange that PUL has said d' and not t'. I am thinking that the d' is actually from "de"?

1) I think so.
2) I don't think so. I have failed to find teh Version of an Bonnán Buí I've heard online except youtubed, but it has this line: Agus dúirt mo bhean liom ligean den ól Mar nach mbeinnse beo ach seal beag gearr; Is éard a dúirt mé léi go dtug sí a héitheach...

I'll confim later.

See also


http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100030/text006.html

See section 44:
1] Béartar do Shitric trédachach.
2] ó thug se a éitheach
3] a c-comhall sin alle.
4] lé h-Éiric righ na n-Innse.

Thank you. I think you are right from those example. But I think also that after the -s of thugais, thugais d'éiteach, the d will sound like a t anyway...

quote:

1. in line with what was said above about "is measa liom" meaning "I prefer", was PUL's response, "is measa liom tusa agus is fearr liom Mícheál" a tactful and sort of witty response with both halves of the sentence meaning the same thing?

That would appear to be the case.

quote:

2. Thugas d'éitheach. Dinneen has thugas t'éitheach, as if the d' is from the possessive particle. In this case it would be strange that PUL has said d' and not t'. I am thinking that the d' is actually from "de"?

No. The possessive adjective do always becomes t' before a vowel or fh- in Corca Dhuibhne and I imagine the same is true of must of Munster.

I would hazard a guess that PUL is sticking with the classical spelling here - d'éitheach; t'éitheach being colloquial. The d' has nothing to do with the preposition de.

Ah, yes!

I'm confused. :(

"Is measa léi a hathair ná aon fhear beo, uasal ná íseal.”

- it does sound like she is saying that she prefers her father to any man.

But "is measa" to me means the opposite of "is fearr".

"Is é an faoitín an breac is measa liom"-
to me that means that the faoitín is the fish I dislike more than any other.

Maybe it's a dialect thing.

Similar to - Is cuma liom - I don't care.

quote:

to me that means that the faoitín is the fish I dislike more than any other.

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil dé-bhrí ann; ach is léir ón gcuid eile den amhrán gur fearr leis an faoitín.

Aisteach go leor níl "is measa liom" luaite beag ná mór ag Ó Dónaill.

Bríd, it is in the dictionary as meaning "I prefer". I assume the derivation of it is that people you prefer make you worried or concerned about them more. Just think if you fancied a man, and someone said "oh, you've got it really bad".

Under olc, on p930 of Ó Dónaill's dictionary, meaning 4a) says "más OLC leat é, if you don't like it", contrasting quite sharply with meaning 8a) "(of affection) cé is measa leat? whom do you prefer?"

It seems it would be easy to get this wrong in context.

(Message edited by corkirish on November 25, 2010)

Which edition have you?

I didn't think to look under olc (I looked under meas)

I see your second meaning on page 930 all right, but as 7b)! 7 is annotated as "comp measa used in special senses)

I have a 2007 printing.

Sorry, it is 7b). Ó Dónaill's dictionary lists all phrases involving comparatives under the adjective of which it is the comparative. Eg fearr is discussed under maith.

It just didn't occur to me that this meaning was from olc; I thought it was a different word!

I had a look in the corpas: There are about 20 examples, nearly all with a negtaive meaning.

Unless I'm mistaken these samples seem to show that it can be used either way by the same writer.

is measa liom
Séamus 'ac Grianna: Mo Dhá Róisín

1 - 3 as 3: abairt 1896, ag toiseacht ar lch 98, líne 21

“Órú 'leanbh ba mheasa liom a chonnaic mé ariamh,” ar
sise, “is beag shíl do mhathair gur seo mar thiocfá
chuici.


is measa liom
Seosamh 'ac Grianna: Pádraic Ó Conaire agus Aistí Eile

1 - 3 as 3: abairt 3079, ag toiseacht ar lch 281, líne 9

Agus is measa liom 'ná an t-iomlán go bhfuil liosta na
bhfear aicí.”


is measa liom
Seosamh 'ac Grianna: 'Teacht fríd an tSeagal

1 - 3 as 3: abairt 1532, ag toiseacht ar lch 127, líne 13

“Ní'l ná a shaothar orm! Is tú an cailín beag is dísle
liom, agus is deise liom, agus is dóigheamhla liom a
chonnaic mé ariamh, agus sé rud a bhéas tú ag éirghe
díleas agus deas agus dóigheamhail de réir mar bhéas tú ag
dul i méaduigheacht, agus is measa liom tú ná nídh ná
neach faoi'n ghréin.”


is measa liom
Seosamh 'ac Grianna: Dith Céille Almayer

1 - 3 as 3: abairt 3699, ag toiseacht ar lch 258, líne 20

“Is measa liom-sa a cuid deór ná fearg na ndéithe.”


is measa liom
Seosamh 'ac Grianna: Ivanhoe

1 - 3 as 3: abairt 3464, ag toiseacht ar lch 288, líne 14

Is í mo nighean m'fhuil agus m'fheóil, agus is measa liom
míle uair í ná na cnámha seo a bhfuil tú ag bagar in do
chuid cruadh-chroidheacht' ortha.

The first place I saw the expression "is measa liom" for "I prefer" was in An tOileánach when talking about his mother and father in the first chapter, I think.

yes. It could have the "I prefer" meaning too in certain contexts.

"Is measa liom a bheith ró-the ná ró-fhuar."

It's worse for me to be too hot than too cold --

I don't like either, but I prefer to be too cold rather than too hot.