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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (November-December) » Archive through November 29, 2010 » Alaidh? « Previous Next »

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I am completely stumped by this sentence:

quote:

“A Árdrígh,” ar seisean, “ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort.



I can't find the word alaidh. PUL often spelled "ll" as "l", and I thought it could mean "allaidh", which apparently is a variant of allta, but that doesn't make any sense.

Does anyone understand it?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10703
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Can you give a bit more context?

"Ní h-eol domhsa" (I know of no injustice) would make sense.

Dinneen also has álaḋ, -aiḋ, a wound; spite; ill-feeling which might also fit, i. it's no skin off my nose to do you an injustice.

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The whole paragraph is:

quote:

“A Árdrígh,” ar seisean, “ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort. Má’s toil le fearaibh Éirean an Árdrígheacht so thabhairt dómh-sa isé a gceart í thabhairt dom. Má ’sé a dtoil í choimeád agat-sa isé a gceart í choimeád agat. B’fhéidir ná fuil fios aigne fear Éirean fós agat-sa ná agam-sa sa sgéal. I dtreó nách féidir choídhche a rádh gur dhéineas éagcóir ort socaruighmís mar seo é. Bíodh bliain agat chun do nirt a chruinniughadh agus chun tu féin a chur i dtreó. Ansan, má bhíon tú ábalta air, cosain tú féin orm.”


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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10704
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ní háil liom I do not wish to do you an injustice

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 598
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I think "alaidh" is "ealaí" itself a variant form of "ealaín". "ealaí" is pronounced /ɑˈliː/ in west Munster and /əˈlai/ in east Munster (Déise Mumhan for example).

See Ó Dónaill under "ealaín", point 3:

Ní healaín duit é = it is no fit occupation for you, no way for you to carry on
Níorbh ealaín dom gan a dhéanamh = it was the proper thing for me to do, I made sure to do it

And Dinneen:

ní healadha do = it is not for, does not befit
ní healadha do dhuine an tsrón a bhaint de féin mar olc ar a cheannaighthibh = don't cut off your nose to spite your face

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I had a thought: PUL often spells an initial ea- as a-.

Do you thing Aonghus it is this? Ealadha? See dinneen's page 391. Ní h-ealadha do, it does not befit (someone)?

Ealadha is listed as eala in Dónall's dictionary, which is a variant of ealaín. So Dónall has "ní healaín duit é", it is no way for you to carry on.

Ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort: this would then be "ní heala/ní healaín domhsa aon éagóir a dhéanamh ort".

The spelling with -idh at the end confuses the matter. Dinneen says that "ealadha" is pronounced "ealaí", and I wonder if the -aidh of alaidh is trying to show that??

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 105
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Thank you Ailín, I was posting at the same time as you, but I am glad you confirmed my line of thought, as I was still dubious about it.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 599
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

The spelling with -idh at the end confuses the matter. Dinneen says that "ealadha" is pronounced "ealaí", and I wonder if the -aidh of alaidh is trying to show that??



The spelling is indeed unusual but is it at all possible that PUL was trying to show that the second syllable contained a diphthong like the Déise pronunciation? I know IWM gives /ɑˈliː/ for ealaí but perhaps in this particular turn of phrase it is /əˈlai/? I note with interest that Ó Cuív also gives the form "eala" in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhúirne (page 99): cad é an eala bheatha leanann sé? = how does he make his living?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10705
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 04:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Ní healaín duit é = it is no fit occupation for you, no way for you to carry on



That seems most plausible, yes.

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 114
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 05:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

The spelling is indeed unusual but is it at all possible that PUL was trying to show that the second syllable contained a diphthong like the Déise pronunciation? I know IWM gives /ɑˈliː/ for ealaí but perhaps in this particular turn of phrase it is /əˈlai/? I note with interest that Ó Cuív also gives the form "eala" in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhúirne (page 99): cad é an eala bheatha leanann sé? = how does he make his living?



Ailín, I don't think the spelling "alaidh" would produce /əˈlai/ according to IWM. I think it is more likely, and dovetailing what you said about the entry in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhuírne, that the spelling "alaidh" is meant to show this phrase is pronounced /nʹi: hɑlə/ or /nʹi: hɑli/. In other words the final vowel is an "i-coloured schwa".

It would seem the word traditionally spelled ealadha is pronounced /ɑ'li:/ normally, but /ɑlə/ in the phrase "ní h-ealadha".

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 605
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 09:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Ailín, I don't think the spelling "alaidh" would produce /əˈlai/ according to IWM. I think it is more likely, and dovetailing what you said about the entry in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhuírne, that the spelling "alaidh" is meant to show this phrase is pronounced /nʹi: hɑlə/ or /nʹi: hɑli/. In other words the final vowel is an "i-coloured schwa".



Yeah, that makes sense.



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