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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:48 pm: | |
I am completely stumped by this sentence: quote:“A Árdrígh,” ar seisean, “ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort. I can't find the word alaidh. PUL often spelled "ll" as "l", and I thought it could mean "allaidh", which apparently is a variant of allta, but that doesn't make any sense. Does anyone understand it? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10703 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:56 pm: | |
Can you give a bit more context? "Ní h-eol domhsa" (I know of no injustice) would make sense. Dinneen also has álaḋ, -aiḋ, a wound; spite; ill-feeling which might also fit, i. it's no skin off my nose to do you an injustice. |
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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:01 pm: | |
The whole paragraph is: quote:“A Árdrígh,” ar seisean, “ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort. Má’s toil le fearaibh Éirean an Árdrígheacht so thabhairt dómh-sa isé a gceart í thabhairt dom. Má ’sé a dtoil í choimeád agat-sa isé a gceart í choimeád agat. B’fhéidir ná fuil fios aigne fear Éirean fós agat-sa ná agam-sa sa sgéal. I dtreó nách féidir choídhche a rádh gur dhéineas éagcóir ort socaruighmís mar seo é. Bíodh bliain agat chun do nirt a chruinniughadh agus chun tu féin a chur i dtreó. Ansan, má bhíon tú ábalta air, cosain tú féin orm.” |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10704 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:08 pm: | |
Ní háil liom I do not wish to do you an injustice |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 598 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:09 pm: | |
I think "alaidh" is "ealaí" itself a variant form of "ealaín". "ealaí" is pronounced /ɑˈliː/ in west Munster and /əˈlai/ in east Munster (Déise Mumhan for example). See Ó Dónaill under "ealaín", point 3: Ní healaín duit é = it is no fit occupation for you, no way for you to carry on Níorbh ealaín dom gan a dhéanamh = it was the proper thing for me to do, I made sure to do it And Dinneen: ní healadha do = it is not for, does not befit ní healadha do dhuine an tsrón a bhaint de féin mar olc ar a cheannaighthibh = don't cut off your nose to spite your face |
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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:11 pm: | |
I had a thought: PUL often spells an initial ea- as a-. Do you thing Aonghus it is this? Ealadha? See dinneen's page 391. Ní h-ealadha do, it does not befit (someone)? Ealadha is listed as eala in Dónall's dictionary, which is a variant of ealaín. So Dónall has "ní healaín duit é", it is no way for you to carry on. Ní h-alaidh dhómh-sa aon éagcóir a dhéanamh ort: this would then be "ní heala/ní healaín domhsa aon éagóir a dhéanamh ort". The spelling with -idh at the end confuses the matter. Dinneen says that "ealadha" is pronounced "ealaí", and I wonder if the -aidh of alaidh is trying to show that?? |
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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 105 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:12 pm: | |
Thank you Ailín, I was posting at the same time as you, but I am glad you confirmed my line of thought, as I was still dubious about it. |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 599 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 04:20 pm: | |
quote:The spelling with -idh at the end confuses the matter. Dinneen says that "ealadha" is pronounced "ealaí", and I wonder if the -aidh of alaidh is trying to show that?? The spelling is indeed unusual but is it at all possible that PUL was trying to show that the second syllable contained a diphthong like the Déise pronunciation? I know IWM gives /ɑˈliː/ for ealaí but perhaps in this particular turn of phrase it is /əˈlai/? I note with interest that Ó Cuív also gives the form "eala" in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhúirne (page 99): cad é an eala bheatha leanann sé? = how does he make his living? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10705 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 04:02 am: | |
quote:Ní healaín duit é = it is no fit occupation for you, no way for you to carry on That seems most plausible, yes. |
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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 114 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 05:35 am: | |
quote:The spelling is indeed unusual but is it at all possible that PUL was trying to show that the second syllable contained a diphthong like the Déise pronunciation? I know IWM gives /ɑˈliː/ for ealaí but perhaps in this particular turn of phrase it is /əˈlai/? I note with interest that Ó Cuív also gives the form "eala" in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhúirne (page 99): cad é an eala bheatha leanann sé? = how does he make his living? Ailín, I don't think the spelling "alaidh" would produce /əˈlai/ according to IWM. I think it is more likely, and dovetailing what you said about the entry in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhuírne, that the spelling "alaidh" is meant to show this phrase is pronounced /nʹi: hɑlə/ or /nʹi: hɑli/. In other words the final vowel is an "i-coloured schwa". It would seem the word traditionally spelled ealadha is pronounced /ɑ'li:/ normally, but /ɑlə/ in the phrase "ní h-ealadha". |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 605 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 09:09 am: | |
quote:Ailín, I don't think the spelling "alaidh" would produce /əˈlai/ according to IWM. I think it is more likely, and dovetailing what you said about the entry in Cnósach Focal ó Bhaile Bhuírne, that the spelling "alaidh" is meant to show this phrase is pronounced /nʹi: hɑlə/ or /nʹi: hɑli/. In other words the final vowel is an "i-coloured schwa". Yeah, that makes sense. |
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