| Author |
Message |
    
owen (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Monday, November 01, 2010 - 08:10 pm: |     |
I think the irish for halloween is Oíche Shamhna. If Samhna is the genitive of Samhain why the lenition? Hope you can help! |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10572
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 05:05 am: | |
Toisc go bhfuil Oíche baininscneach |
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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 488
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 06:06 am: | |
Not necessarily because oíche is feminine but because Samhain is a definite noun. See GGBC: 4.17 |
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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw
Post Number: 843
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 12:13 pm: | |
both
I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin. |
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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 501
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 12:43 pm: | |
There are many cases where the initial consonant is left unlenited following a feminine noun, and therefore I repeat, that the primary rule operating here is the lenition of the initial consonant in a two noun chain where the second word is a definite noun in the genitive. Take out "oíche" and put in a masculine noun, and you would still have to lenite the initial consonant. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10583
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 12:54 pm: | |
An dtabharfá sampla nó dhó ar mhaithe linne nach bhfuil an Béarlagair againn?
Lá Shamhna, an ea? |
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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 502
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 01:23 pm: | |
Bhuel, drochshampla is ea "Samhna" mar is gnáthach an t-alt a bheith roimis ach amháin i gcás "oíche", "lá". "Mí na Samhna/Samhan" a deirtear agus ní hé "Mí Shamhna". Bhíos-sa ag cuimhneamh ar "paróiste Dhún Chaoin", "Club Chonradh na Gaeilge", "bóthar Bhaile Phib", "ceannasaí Chumann Lúthchleas Gael" etc. - focal firinscneach is ea an chéad cheann ins nach aon cheann acu san.
Tá an scéal ábhairín eisceachtúil i gcás ainmeacha laethanata agus míonna áirithe. Cím go bhfuil "Lá Samhna" ag Niall Ó Dónaill agus ages na Bráithre (4.19). Agus "Domhnach Cincíse", "Lá Bealtaine". Féadtar a rá mar sin go mbíonn an ghnáthriail maidir le séimhiú/loime ar lorg ainmfhocal baininscneach/firinscneach i bhfeidhm maidir le hainmeacha áirithe ar mhíonna, laethanta ar leith gur gnáthach an t-alt a bheith leo i leaganacha eile. Tá an ceart aige Seán mar sin - tá dhá riail ag feidhmiú rud ná fuil i gcás "leabhar Sheáin", "cathaoir Sheáin", "muintir Chúba", "uachtarán Chúba". |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10584
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 01:27 pm: | |
Sna samplaí a thug tú, tá breis agus dhá ainmfhocal i gceist. Nach gcuireann san casadh sa riail? |
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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 503
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 01:37 pm: | |
Ní chuireann. Aonad céille is ea "Dún Chaoin", "Conradh na Gaeilge" etc. "fear/bean Thíorabháin" - an riail chéanna. |
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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw
Post Number: 844
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 04:26 pm: | |
Original poster, here is an easy summary: http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/subst2.htm#genitivlen For the full meal, read sections 4.14 - 4.20 (pgs. 30-32) of Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí available here. http://ec.europa.eu/translation/irish/documents/christian_brothers_comprehensive _irish_grammar_ga.pdf
I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin. |
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