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David Webb from corkirish.com (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 09:41 am: | |
1. Cumasach - can this mean "portly, on the large side"? Séadna chapter 23: duine uasal breagh groídhe cumasach dob’ eadh an fear d’osgail é: I am assuming groí means "hearty, spirited" and cumasach means "portly". Norma Borthwick's translation was "the man who opened it was a fine, brave, portly gentleman". I am not sure why "brave" is in here, unless it is some kind of translation of groí. And shouldn't the translation start from the back of the adjectives? A portly, hearty, fine gentleman? 2. Buille beag - this can mean somewhat, as in: tá an tráthnóna buille beag glas ann féin, the evening is a bit chilly. [Although I tried to use "buille beag glas" in Músgraí, and the "native speakers" didn't understand it and told me it was wrong. ] So what about: bhuail an ceann buille beag réidh ar an ndorus: is buille here used as "knock": he gave a quiet little knock on the door? Or does "buille beag" mean somewhat here? he knocked the door somewhat quietly? |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 947 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 06:07 pm: | |
I would think "portly" is a mis-translation. Cumasach means capable, of good ability, able etc. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10260 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 03:55 am: | |
quote:is buille here used as "knock": he gave a quiet little knock on the door? Yes. With regards to the other, I should think that the translation is not word for word. They are all adjectives which suggest a solid, friendly person: I think "brave" is being used in that sense. From dictionary.com brave 1. possessing or exhibiting courage or courageous endurance. 2. making a fine appearance. 3. Archaic . excellent; fine; admirable. groí [aidiacht den tríú díochlaonadh] breá, láidir, croíúil. cumas [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh] ábaltacht, neart (cumas a bheith ionat; bheith i gcumas rud a dhéanamh; níl sé ar mo chumas). |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 127 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 05:30 am: | |
1) duine uasal breagh groidhe cumasach - a fine well-mannered hearty strapping man. Note that there should be no síneadh fada on the i in groidhe. The vowel is understood to be long anyway under the pre-standard spelling system, although orginally short and then lengthened due to the loss of the intervocalic frivative. 2) tá an tráthnóna buille beag glas ann féin - buille beag fuar, buille beag déanach, buille beag luath - a bit cold, late, early etc. A common construction in Corca Dhuibhne and Amhlaoibh Ó Luínse has at least one example: "Muarchuid acu déanta lena n-aghaig soir, b’fhéidir buille beag soir-ó-dheas; Many of them (were) made facing east, slightly in a south-easterly direction, (SAL:23)". Buille beag - an adverbial phrase placed before an adjective. |
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David Webb from corkirish.com (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 11:39 am: | |
Carmanach, the spelling I gave of these sentences from Séadna was as given in Séadna, 1904 edition! PUL often wrote things like groídhe - he didn't fully conform to the "pre-standard spelling system". Yes - that was a great example from Amhlaoibh Ó Loingsigh. I would like an electronic version of SAL. |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 170 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 10:08 am: | |
Be that as it may, I think most writers in the pre-Caighdeán Oifigiúil era would not put a síneadh fada on the i in words such as groidhe, croidhe, luighe, suidhe, cómhnaidhe, groigh, etc though you well may see a síneadh fada in some of the manuscripts. As for the pre-standard spelling system, I mean the broad set of spelling conventions handed down since the Classical Irish period and used in Dinneen's dictionary among other texts. |
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