In chapter 24 of Mo Sgéal Féin there is this:

Níor bheag leó de'n "mhargadh" úd, margadh an leath-
taoibh, "raint na caillighe, mar is áil léi féin é."

Is "roinnt na caillí, mar is áil léi féin é" a recognised proverb meaning "an unfair bargain"? And what does it have to do with cailleach, a hag?

This also raises the question of cailleach. The dictionary says it means nun as well as hag, but as far as I know nun is bean rialta. Does modern Irish use cailleach to mean "nun"?

Cailleach means "witch" also, for what it's worth. Cití Cailleach is the heroine of some of my childrens' favourite bedtime stories. This might be more the meaning nodded towards in the text but I don't recognise the phrase.

I have never heard it used to refer to a nun but that doesn't necessarily mean it is no longer used.

Cailleach is used often. In the case of a mother and daughter the mother might jocosely refer to herself as "an chailleach" (the old lady) - the less attractive one; the one to be feared by the boyfriend of the daughter etc the "mother in law". It depends on the context.

Roinnt na caillí = an unfair bargain; a mean miserly division etc

With the commercialisation of Halloween school children need an equivalent for the wicked witch so beloved of shopkeepers and the media. Cailleach fits the bill nicely.

Who knows but somebody somewhere may have referred to nuns as "cailleacha" but it is a pejorative term. It means "an undesirable ugly old woman."

Níor bheag leo = They were fed up of such deals

Not a bargain necessarily - can also be an unfair critique - seeking to have your cake and eat it too somehow.

A "caille" is a veil or a shawl drawn about the face, hence the reference to nuns and old women. "Cailleach dhubh" you might still hear for a nun - although more often for a cormorant! - but as you say the more usual term nowadays is "bean rialta."

Roinnt na cáillí, mar is áil léi féin

The crone divides (whatever), favouring herself

Not necessarily "favouring herself" even - just arbitrarily and not very logically.
There is normally an "é" at the end of the phrase, which makes this a little more clear:
roinnt na caillí mar is áil léi féin é = the crone's division, as she herself wishes it


Máirtín Ó Cadhain uses this expression in Páipéir Bhána agus Páipéir Bhreaca (where I first read it!) to characterize certain criticisms of Cré na Cille:
"... is dóigh liom gurbh é {roinnt na caillí mar is áil léi féin é} acu é."

quote:

just arbitrarily and not very logically.

áil = desire, wish.

Tá loighic ann, mar sin, an loighic a bhaineann le áil an chailligh!

A mhalairt atá sa Ghearmáinis, gan amhras: "geschwisterlich teilen" - roinnt mar a déantar idir ál aon mháthair....

The context is about how the landlords negotiated with the tenants: if his land had been at a rent of 50 pounds a year, and the lease was up, and the tenant had built a house for £200 on it, PUL explained the landlord would say something like "you had the land at 50 pounds, and now the rent is going up whether you like it or not to 100 pounds a year (note: in the largely non-inflationary period of the gold standard - prices were not going up as much as now), and because you have built a house for £200 on it, I'll let you off £10 a year for 20 years, and so the renewal of the lease will be at the bargain price of only £90". This was the roinnt caillí, mar is áil léi féin é.

(Message edited by david_w on April 26, 2010)

(Message edited by david_w on April 26, 2010)

Agus tabhair cailleach uirthi!

It is a well known phrase (I think that was your original question?)

Aonghus, I couldn't find the phrase in the dictionary, but dictionary coverage of proverbs and the like is a little patchy. Tabhair cailleach uirthi - call her a hag!?

Tabhair X air[uirthi]!

What an X!

(Message edited by aonghus on April 26, 2010)

Is it? I've never seen that, but I'll add tabhair X air to my repertoire. I am only familiar with cad é mar in that sense: cad é mar chailligh!

Tá sampla anseo:

http://www.feasta.ie/2008/eanair/alt6.html

quote:

“Well, bhí bean eile acu lá nuair a thosaigh an t-aonach i nDoire an Fhéich, bhí sí féin ag díol bó ann. Ach is í an sórt bó a bhí aici sin, bó thirim. Well, ní raibh sí baileach triomaithe uilig ach bó thirim a bhí inti. Tháinig ceannaí agus d’fhiafraigh sé, ‘What are you asking for the stripper?’ a deir sé.

Ní raibh a fhios aici sa diabhal céard a bhí sé a rá. Nuair a chonaic sé nach raibh sí dhá thuiscint, ‘Well,’ a deir sé, ‘is she dry?’

D’fhiafraigh an bhean de dhuine eicínt a bhí lena taobh céard a bhí an ceannaí ag fiafraí. ‘Tá sé ag fiafraí dhíot,’ a deir sé, ‘an bhfuil sí tirim, an bhó.’

‘Ó, muise, a dheartháirín,’ a deir an bhean leis an gceannaí, go raibh sí tirim. ‘Agus tabhair tirim air,’ a deir sí, ‘murach an diabhal de mhúirín sin a rinne sé ar ball, tá sí fliuch báite.’”

That's very interesting, Aonghus.