mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 15, 2010 » Double checking « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1456
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 06:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

just to make doubly sure:

it's "a ghrá geal" and not "a ghrá gheal," correct?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 10:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A ghrá ghil!

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3425
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 10:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes, "a ghrá ghil" -> the adjective has to be in the vocative too.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 10:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am wondering now about the vocative vs the possessive. What about: mo ghrá geal?

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 842
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 01:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Welsh studies, the term "contact mutation" is used when the lenition is triggered solely by the presence or absence of a particular preceding element with no other grammatical considerations coming into play. I think such a term is useful here. Lenition after mo is a contact mutation. It doesn't matter what the case, gender, number, etc. of the noun is; if it follows mo, then it is lenited. (Contrast this to an, where the presence or absence of lenition or eclipsis is completely subject to grammatical considerations.)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Abigail
Member
Username: Abigail

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 03:18 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"A ghrá geal" and "a ghrá ghil" are both correct - depends whether the vocative is understood literally or metaphorically.

I'd plump for "a ghrá geal" myself but you will hear them both, and both are correct.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3426
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 04:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I am wondering now about the vocative vs the possessive. What about: mo ghrá geal?



Normally you don't use possessives with the vocative.

Aibí > can love be expressed metaphorically? For taiscidh, stór etc, I see, but for "love"... ? What can "love" mean, except "love" ?

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 843
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 04:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does the rule rely on metaphoricality per se or simply animacy? Moreover, is there really that principled a distinction between the metaphoricality of "valued object" > "beloved person" and the metonymy of "love" > "beloved person"?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 - 04:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Lughaidh, "is mo ghrá geal thu" - it doesn't have to be vocative.

Abigail is talking about a "rule" where non-animate nouns applied to people don't take the vocative eg "a rún", "a stór" -actually IWM does refer to "a rúin" in one paragraph. I wonder whether this rule has crept in over the last century due to the decline of the vocative? The old green Christian Brothers' Grammar showed a full complement of vocatives for every noun, including non-animates....

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge