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Linda_kathleen
Member
Username: Linda_kathleen
Post Number: 110
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 05:47 pm: |   
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Thanks to this forum, I know that Irish does not put agus between some adjective pairs, notwithstanding English's use of 'and', eg:
tinn tuirseach
sick and tired
But how do I tell when to drop it and when not to? For example, if I said 'the police arrived in a black and white patrol car', do I need agus? What about 'everything on Main Street is red, white and blue'? Or, if I referred to 'a coming together of the green and orange factions'?
These pairings may not be quite as common as 'nice and warm', but their meaning together is different from their separate meanings.
Does anyone know where to find a reasonably extensive list of pairs which drop agus? Otherwise, I'm inclined towards 'when in doubt, leave it out.'
I am a rank beginner. And I mean the rankest of the rank. Please be kind. But don't let me get away with even the smallest mistake. After all, if you don't correct me, how will I learn?
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3318
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 07:07 pm: |
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My old Irish teacher used to say "when in doubt, find out!" :-)
Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw
Post Number: 324
Registered: 07-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 07:30 pm: |
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Often between two adjectives starting with the same letter.
I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 671
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
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Beware translating certain pairs like the example you just gave, "nice and warm."
In English, "nice and" is frequently used as a kind of adverbial construct to express "to just the right degree." Similarly with "good and," which can mean "very." |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9351
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 04:10 am: |
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In the cases you gave "dubh agus bán" describe different parts of the car [etc], and therefore the "agus" belongs there.
"Tinn tuirseach" is kind of a compound adjective describing a single state. |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 788
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 01:27 pm: |
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quote:In the cases you gave "dubh agus bán" describe different parts of the car [etc], and therefore the "agus" belongs there. Except sometimes Irish has compound adjectives even in cases like this, e.g. dúchrón "black and tan". I was actually taught that using agus to link two adjectives is at best unnecessary and at worst an anglicism. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9369
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 10:31 am: |
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Bhuel, níl fhios agam anois dubh, bán ná riabhach cad ba cheart dom a rá! |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9371
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 09:52 am: |
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Having thought about it some more I think it is true to say that "agus" is not used if
1) The adjectives are orthogonal (Tall and thin - ard tanaí)
2) The adjectives are compound (Sick and tired - tinn tuirseach)
Dúchrónaigh does translate as "Black and Tan" - but originally described a type of dog. There are compund words like Piebald in english (or riabhach as I used above) for variegated animals.
But I think a black and white car, or a green, white and orange flag would be described using "agus" |
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