Some people will know that I've been learning Irish for the past 6 months-- as in concentrated effort and a bit obsessively if I'm honest-- and although I am on a kind of break for a couple of months because of work I have now discovered since putting Irish second to English again, that my English has deteriorated!

I could see this as a good or a bad thing- good that I constantly have this huge need to speak in Irish but bad since I have to speak in English cause the person doesn't have Irish, and yeah... weirdly my English has been thrown off. I'm more aware than ever what is Hiberno English of what I speak and what is not and while that awareness is now there, and though I definitely have an increasingly better standard of Irish, I of course am not fluent yet. So with that and my English going stale (ridiculous I know) I'm finding this experience to be altogether weird.

Has anyone gone through this..

What I find is that a knowledge of Irish and other languages enhances my ability in English, in the long run.

But where it does have a detrimental effect, I feel, is on my English language spelling, which seems to be going from bad to worse.

This brings me to another point. Does anyone else agree with me that, all things being equal, it is easier to predict / guess the spelling of an Irish word than an English word?

I have to admit that my spelling is rather poor in Bearla agus Gaeilge!! The more I work on my Irish, my english spelling does seem to disimprove even further,ach 'ní fál go haer é'. All that matters to me is that my Irish keeps improving. I recognise that it may not be so simple for others who use the english written word every day in their line of work.

I would agree with Joe that for those of us who never really learned english grammer and spelling rules, it is easier to predict/guess the spelling 'as gaeilge', because we are now more aware of the rules that apply. My disinterest in english grammer etc stems from not ever having being taught it properly at school.

quote:

Has anyone gone through this...

Not with Irish ... yet! I've had this with other languages. At one point I was learning Spanish and German in back to back classes. I was doing things like saying "und" for "y" and vice versa. Now both of these are a complete mess because I don't use them enough. I think it is like riding a bicycle. You need to keep it up, but if you're away, there is a bit of relearning. I think the English was starting to go into the long term memory banks, and the Irish being maintained in the short-term ones. Suddenly, you've called back the English! Unless you find a situation in which you use both regularly, it may be a bit abck and forth with them. You might slip in words or phrases from the other language, or start to think in the other language. People who use both get the practice of shifting back and forth, and I think an increased proficiency overall.

I had something similar happen to me about a week ago and it frankly disturbed the hell out of me.

In college, I majored in languages and studied French, Spanish and German. My French is (or was, anyway) pretty fluent, and my German and Spanish was at least passable.

Anyway, I opened my mouth intending to say, in Spanish, "was your mother a santera?" Care to guess what came out? "An raibh do mhathair santera?"

*lol* Talk about a confused look.

But what got me was that when I consciously tried for Spanish, IT WAS NOT THERE. This is a simple, simple sentence, but the words, the structure, the intonation -- gone. I was literally struck dumb. Imagine my further surprise when I tried to render it in French and had the same reaction. THAT was the truly disconcerting part, being rendered aphasic in a language I had a very good command of.

Later I got back home and watched some Spanish and French programming online and could understand the majority of what was said, but it took a while before I could get back to a spot where I could say something myself.

One of the most disturbing things to happen to me ever.

Domhnall,

I think that this problem is more apparent than real. I imagine that if you were suddenly launched into an almost exclusively Spanish speaking environment , or indeed French or German environment, your proficiency in these languages would return in jig time.

Someone close to me who works a lot on the European continent in a multilingual environment notices that these faux pases happen on an occasional basis and are merely the cause of some passing mirth.

An raibh do mhathair santera?

That would use the substantive verb when the copula would be needed.

Ar santera í do mháthair?

'an raibh do mhathair ina santera' would also be fine there anyway so.. yeah I can see how that could happen Domhnall!

I think I overdramatised my experiences though. I am just more aware of what I'm saying when I speak English and now I have this affiliation with Irish that I truly want to abandon English completely, or as much as possible, but as you will know that is impossible.

I'm getting so annoyed that I have to speak English in most places in this country outside of the Gaeltacht or with friends who speak it... I'm now going through a phase where I am feeling so frustrated that I can't walk into any shop in any part of Ireland and speak Irish, and also with Irish people for not making more of an effort.

Tá do chroí san áit cheart anois. Coinnigh an cloigeann anois is beidh tú ceart. (= Ná caill an bloc!)

Brúfaidh gach éinne thart ort an teorainn teangan isteach ort mar is uiliteach gach teanga. Is tráthúil in Éirinn na linne seo, teorainn na Gaeilge a bhrú amach, go deas bog, ar ais i dtreo an duine eile. Tá leithscéal an ilteangachais againn ar na saolta so agus is mór an gar go bhfuil. Má tá blaisín de theanga ar bith eile agat, an Spáinnis, fágaim, níl le déanamh ach beannú do dhuine ar bith i siopa/teach leanna sa Spáinnis i dtosach SULA labhróidh siad féin. A luaithe a dhéanfaidh tú sin, tá teorainn an Bhéarla briste agat.

Fút féin ansin an duine eile a fhéachaint i nGaeilg. Má theipeann ar an duine eile, is cuma. Tá sibh ar thalamh neodrach anois ar aon chaoi. Níor luigh tú faoi bhris an Bhéarla ar an nGaeilg agus is ar an dóigh sin a tháinig tú roimh an ngnátheachtra teangan. - Tá sé chomh simplí le seo: an chéad duine a labhraíonn, leagan sé /sí sin síos comhthéacs na heachtra áirithe sin.

Ar an láimh eile, tiocfaidh tú orthu siúd a bhfuil an cúpla focal acu agus thug tú deis dóibh iad labhairt.

Ní dhéanfaidh éinne eile an 'effort' ach sinne a bhfuil an teanga againn agus fonn orainn í a labhairt. Cuimhnímis gur fíorbheagán daoine in Éirinn a labhróidh Gaeilg le duine coimhthíoch a chasfar dóibh, agus áirím móramh mhuintir na Gaeltachta ina measc. Is fearr muintir Chonamara ná éinne agus is fearr na hiascairí ná muintir Chonamara frí chéile. Orainn féin an locht mura bhfuil an duine eile féachta ina c(h)uid Gaeilge.

Tabhair faoi is aireoidh tú níos fearr. Tuigfidh tú go bhfuil smacht agat féin ar gach eachtra teangan. Is eachtra teangan é gach am a labhraítear le 'Gaeilgeoir' in Éirinn in aon teanga.

My English hasn't gotten better or worse, but it certainly has changed. Now when someone asks me a yes-or-no question, I almost invariably affirm it with a short sentence instead of the word "yes".

I've also noticed a difference in my cleft sentences. Nowadays I'm more likely to start them off with, e.g. "It's him who..." rather than "He's the one who..."

I'm sure an Irishman wouldn't notice such things one bit, but they stick out in areas where Irish English isn't spoken.

As far as I'm concerned I've been speaking both languages - french and english- since my very childhood . As I've already told before (in an old thread) I sometimes feel more Irish than French and sometimes just the contrary . Not really in a cultural way but on a language level . I mean that sometimes english words come to my mind very easily, even though I'm surrounded with French people (which is the case everyday ) . And sometimes no French word happens to come , which is a little bit more difficult to assume . But anyway, that's just a habit and I think I manage not too badly. Sometimes though I lack a word and if I'm with friends I say it in English ... and they just know about that ... It also happened to me to have them words coming up to my mind in Gaeilge , but not so often as I would like !!
That happens to me in other languages I used to speak long ago like Dutch or Russian . I often ask my wife about what she 's thinking of saying "Wat denk jij?"in Dutch, but I think if you like languages you can do that easily, without really thinking about it .

The only effect it's had on my English is positive - it's made clear many aspects of Hiberno-English which I use.

One of the most fascinating cases was coming across "Bóín Dé" (ladybird) in my dictionary and remembering that people used to call ladybirds "God's Cows" around here.