This time from An tOileánach, I'd like to know what you make of this:

[...Inniu an Domhnach, agus bhíos ag Aifreann a deich. B'in é Aifreann an phobail. Agus braithim nós nua anois anso, Aifreann a phobail a bheith á chur le hanam dhuine éigin, agus é á ainmniú ón altóir. Ní réitím leis, ná a lán daoine nach mé.] Ach más Aifreann pobail é, é a bheith ina Aifreann pobail.

How would you translate the last sentence, as it seems like a repetition of the same.

Thanks

I think the sense of it is that he feels that the mass for the community should be for the whole community, and not for the soul of a specific dead person, who is named.

If it is the mass for the community, it ought to be the mass for the community.

so the author uses here two different patterns because he needs "to be" in the second one?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

Perhaps my translation is not clear enough.

*but * if * mass * of the community * it, * it * to be * a mass for the community

The form is clear to me, but I can't make it clear in English. Hopefully one of the grammar gurus will explain it better!

I mean that the choice of using two different ways of expressing IT=A COMMUNITY MASS is derivative of the need to use "to be" (ought to be) in the second proposition.

(I hope I made myself clearer)

Thuigfinn mar seo é: "But if it's a community mass it should be performed as a community mass."

(Perhaps a good example of the slightly different meanings of "is X" and "bheith ina X".)

Lars

What is not explicit in the wording, but is implied by preceding context and the difference in structure (implied bits in parentheses) is:

If it is [called] a community mass, [I think] it should [remain] a community mass [and not be dedicated to specific people].

In English we might use a different structure, such as:

But a "community mass" is a mass for the "community" [and shouldn't be dedicated to individuals].

or

If it is a community mass, let it be a mass for the community, not for individuals. (English uses word stress to emphasize differences; Irish prefers other devices such as change of word order to do the same.)

Incidentally, the second structure é a bheith is the one you would also use after ba chóir or ba mhaith linn and may be where the implication of "ought to" comes from. Although it is not explicit in the sentence itself, the ach refers you back to the ní réitim leis "I don't agree with it." and introduces you to why the author thinks it is wrong.

(Ouch, probably no clearer than Aonghus's explanation, nuances are hard to explain...)

quote:

If it is a community mass, let it be a mass for the community

Tá sin níos gaire, cinnte.

Tomás Ó Criomhthainn makes a few words do a lot of work, which is why it is hard to translate his powerful prose.

My mother would've thought the same, if she heard that Aifreann an Phobal was named for somebody.

As a matter of curiosity, what Chapter is this? I have a 1929 copy, it would be nice to compare the passage.

It's on page 68, in my edition.

Thank you all for trying to help me.

A Chapter Number would be helpful!

I don't have chapters in this book.

Since it's not the book itself but a copy, and since I don't have the first pages, it might be that it's not even An tOileánach!

Could it be one of the other books by Tomás Ó Criomhthainn? Are there no headings at all?

I browsed the book, but I didn't find that passage.

There are a few other books, one called Allagr na hInise, another called Scéalta ón Inis Tiar.

I will need to go to the University library for looking for this specific book, as I remember I took this book but from there, but unfortunately the first couple o pages are now gone missing somewhere among my papers.

Sorry, I should organise my desk.

Back to "An Braon Broghach", I'll bring the passage:

[Ach buaileadh stuaic nó múisiam ar bith í, an tine chreasa a thagadh sa tsúil sin agus an loinnir barr dathúlachta a thagadh ina ceannaghaidh ba leide duit iad ar dhreach Mheadhbha agus í ag breathnú ar fhir Chonnacht á sladadh ina dtáinte i Maigh Mhuirtheimhne i ngeall ar a daol danartha féin.]

Bhí scáil mar sin ina súil ar ala na huaire... (p. 56)


My question is what "mar sin" refers to?

Thanks

To "scáil" - the look in her eye

She had that look in her eye.

meaning, there is nothing in the previous lines to which MAR SIN refers to, and it is somewhat exophoric?

Oh. I understand. It refers to the whole passage.

The kind of look that Meabh had looking at men of Connacht being slaughtered by Cúchulainn. Not a happy look!

Thanks!

Déanann Ó Cadhain úsáid anois agus arís den fhocal "daol". An bhfuil brí athraithe ag an fhocal seo?

Comhthéacs?

Ciaróg atá ann, ach is minic deil mar intriacht, seans gur leagan Cadhnach de sin atá ann.

"i ngeall ar a daol danartha féin" would be then -

"because of her own cruel fate"?

Ní dóigh liom é:

daol [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
ciaróg; feithid, péist; taom (bhuail daol caointe í).

danartha [aidiacht den tríú díochlaonadh]
fíochmhar; gan trua; gan mórán cairdis ná féile.


Ba mhaith liom an abairt a fheiscint.

I think it is more likely to be something along the lines of "because of her own fierce humour"