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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (July-August) » Archive through July 16, 2009 » Irish Noun Book? « Previous Next »

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Gavin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 10:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was searching on Amazon for more Irish language books and I found Andrew Carnie's Irish Nouns: A Reference Guide.

http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Nouns-Reference-Oxford-Linguistics/dp/0199213755

Now if I am understanding it correctly, his book breaksdown 1,200 nouns, and then lists 10,000 nouns and gives a model noun to copy in the first 1,200.

Has anyone here purchased this? It seems like a good reference book to have, but for the price I would like to hear peoples opinions about it first?

I am not so interested in the grammar review of this book, I am looking more for a "add it to the collection...or...leave it be and move on" sort of thought.

I was able to go to his website, and view a draft of the work. It seemed pretty impressive to me. But then, in all fairness, any venture with Gaeilge agus Gàidhlig is to me. ;-)

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Smac_muirí
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Username: Smac_muirí

Post Number: 333
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 10:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Linguistic books, being specialist material, cost Gavin. Colleges and institutions don't feel the pinch as much as an individual, hence, the price. Ask your library to order it?

Take a bit of gúglála on the net to see what you may pick up for free – saor in aisce -, before you take the plunge.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~eofeasa/level04/ceacht404/miniu/404b.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_declension

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ainmfhocal

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Gavin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 08:05 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I don't know, seems to me that a book is a book regardless of the material in it.

I have two writers in the family that are published, and they are always saying that once a book covers the cost of production...the rest is just ego.

I am certain if compared to other books of a similar nature in other languages, there is going to a price range which questions the value of the book. LOL

But being a college student myself and feeling the general rape that comes with such types of books...60 dollars isn't so bad. My last psychology book was 225 and couldn't be bought anywhere but at the university.

Normally for this, I have been using Foclóir Beag. But it is nice to have a large resource that doesn't require a power source.

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Student
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Username: Student

Post Number: 134
Registered: 07-2008


Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 09:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gavin, thanks for mentioning the book above; I just ordered a copy of it. It looks like an excellent source for information on nouns and adjectives.

And thanks Seosamh for the links above! I really like the first one, which gives a very clear explanation not only of nouns but many other aspects of the Irish language.

www.irishbooksandgifts.com

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Student
Member
Username: Student

Post Number: 138
Registered: 07-2008


Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 08:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I recently received the book Irish Nouns, by Andrew Carnie. Here's my initial impression:

1. The books is very well written and organized. The author, Andrew Carnie, is a professional linguist, so the book comes from the perspective of someone able to explain the structure of nouns. But instead of being overly academic and out of reach for mere learners like myself, each linguistic term is explained. What I find very helpful, is that whenever a grammatical term is introduced, its Irish equivalent is include parenthetically - makes for better learning of these important terms that much easier.

2. The first 76 pages covers basic concepts but also includes the author's presentation of what he considers to be the 10 declensions of Irish nouns. This section will take numerous readings for me to comprehend. But, as the author mentions in his dedication of the book to his late father who taught him ... "categorizing and listing things has its own special beauty."

3. The middle of the book is devoted to 1,200 Irish nouns. This will be my favorite part of the book. I've held the theory for some time that one of the important building blocks of understanding a lanuage is through its nouns. This section is detailed to the hilt, with each head word in both Irish and English and each declension fully shown.

4. The next section contains about 10,000 nouns and it looks very much like a dictionary. But I do notice that there are descriptors after each word that most likely refer back to earlier sections of the book.

5. Then comes the section on the declension of adjectives - how cool! This for me is a very daunting subject, but I'll have to belly up sooner or later and start to get a grasp on how adjectives are declined.

6. There are a couple of appendices including one on mapping between declensional systems and another on the pronunciation of Irish words. Both sections have their own appeal.

In closing my remarks about the book, I'd like to point out the obvious, before someone does it for me. This book isn't for everyone - there are those here who know everything about the Irish language who wouldn't need a book like this. Then there are those here who are in a constant struggle with others and themselves over dialectical issues. I don't know how they would they take to a book like this, but for those who are looking to learn more about the basics and complexities of Irish nouns, this book looks like the ticket.

Final note: The author mentions that... Michal Boleslav Mechura has produced a very helpful program that uses the principles articulated in this book..... it can be accessed at: http://www.potafocal.com/infhill. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but is he a member here at Daltaí?


(Message edited by student on June 25, 2009)

www.irishbooksandgifts.com

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8478
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 09:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Michal looks in from time to time. His handle is Mbm.

http://www.cainteoir.com is his blog etc.

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Gavin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 10:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wow Student, that was quick. I ordered mine a few days ago...but I went with the "might get it next month if you're lucky" shipping option. LOL

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 222
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 08:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I heartily endorse this product and/or service.

Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach:
www.cainteoir.com

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8495
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, June 28, 2009 - 08:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

A Mhbm, conas a fheidhmíonn http://www.potafocal.com/infhill?

Feictear dom gur gá eolas faoin díochlaonadh agus an inscne a chuir isteach. An amhlaidh atá?

Ní fhaca mé aon leathanach "conas" ann?

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 223
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 06:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bhuel, tá an ceart agat, caithfidh na sonraí sin a bheith agat chun aon úsáid chiallmhar a bhaint as. Mura bhfuil an leabhar agat (agus léite agat), is beag tairbhe a bhainifidh tú as.

Obair idir lámha atá ann (atá páirceáilte faoi láthair, ach sin scéal eile). Ní raibh sé seo in ainm is a bheith le feiceáil go poiblí i ndáiríre, is amhlaidh gur léim Andrew an gunna (nath deas Gaeilge air seo ag éinne?) nuair luaigh sé sa leabhar é. Is cuma.

Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach:
www.cainteoir.com

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8503
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 06:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Maidir le jump the gun:
http://www.word-detective.com/2007/06/08/jump-the-gun/

Tús tobann atá i gceist. N'fheadar an bhfuil a leathbhreac de nath áit éigin sna dealeabhair.

Maidir leis an saothar eile, seans go m'fhiú duit fógra beag a chuir air ar mhaithe le mearbhall a sheachaint?

Sin mar a bhíonn an líonra - nuair atá rud ann, tá sé ann!

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Andrew Carnie (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 11:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hi All,

The author here. Thanks to Student for the very nice review. :-)

I thought I'd pipe in about the price. I've debating with OUP over the price point of this book ever since it came out. The price is typical of academic books that are targeted primarily at libraries and institutions. In order to cover the cost on a book that they don't think will sell well to the general public, they jack up the price per unit. I really wish they'd brought it out in paperback at a more reasonable price. They're also marketing it primarily to linguists, which I think is also a mistake... but they're the experts in the book trade, and I'm not (and despite the fact I'm complaining here, I want to point out that they've been fantastically good to me over all; they're a great publishing house. I mean it's remarkable in some ways that they'd publish a book like this at all. The price and marketing are just a boo boo on their part, I think, and something enough complaints from purchasers will change)

If any of you want to email Oxford and complain about the price and how it puts it out of the range of the average learner or even the average academic, then please do so.

Re the program. My apologies to Michel for jumping the gun. The program isn't finished yet, but I still think it's a fantastic little tool and still worth using, even in it's current form.



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