Hello,

I am a brand new Irish language learner (haven't even started yet). I have been successful at learning other languages due to my compulsions toward discipline & organization (read: mild OCD). As such, before emabarking on this journey, I have devised a 'plan of attack' for learning Irish and would greatly appreciate any thoughts. I will be learning on my own without access to a teacher/totor. I am especially interested in advice regarding anything I may be overlooking. Thank you. Here it is:

Irish Language Plan

Stage I

Print Irish pronunciation guides, avail at: http://irishnorthernaid.com/language_hub.html & http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html


Stage II
Buy
• Dictionary. Recommend: Focloir Poca English - Irish / Irish - English Dictionary

• Language Course. Recommend: Spoken World: Irish by Living Language © 2009

• Grammar Book. Recommend: Irish Grammar Book by Nollaig Mac Congáil © 2005

Work through language course exclusively using grammar & dictionary references as needed.

Stage III
Buy
• Irish Language Book. Recommend: An Tobar (this & many others avail at: http://www.litriocht.com/shop/

• 1 x Irish Language Newspaper (many avail for free online, e.g. http://www.nuacht.com)

Read through book 1st then newspaper, translating & creating flashcards as necessary.

Stage IV
Buy
• Rosetta Stone: Learn Irish

Complete all 3 levels.
Continue with newspaper translations
Join online chat rooms

Stage V
• Visit Ireland for a language course. Recommend those at: http://www.oideas-gael.com/

Thanks to all in advance who offer helpful suggestions, I will certainly be grateful.

If I could do it all over again, I'd do the following

0) procure good two-way dictionary and mcgonagle's grammar book for reference...briathra na gaeilge would be a bonus.

1) complete pimsleur Irish (won't take long).

2) buy and begin buntús cainte 1,2,3

3) after lesson 20 of buntús, begin (and complete in tandem) Rosetta Stone Irish 1, 2, 3

4) after Rosetta Stone Irish 1 (while finishing RS and Buntús), start reading children's books (An Tobar, Dunmharú ar an Dart, etc) and work your way up the difficulty ladder to adult materials.

refer to reference materials in 0 for questions you have throughout.

Classes are good all along the way if you can get them.

I've made more progress using this method in the last two years than in all the ten years trying various teach yourself courses put together.

Really appreciate the feedback - will definitely look into the references you mentioned

I'm only into this a little short of 3 months. I have been using a language course recommended by Oideas Gael called "Tús Maith" ( means A good start!). It's a great start, but gets hammeringly hard by about lesson 11 so we'll see yet. Then I would sign up for Michelle's "365 words" at www.talkirish.com and she'll email you a new word with a sentence and an mpeg so you can hear it pronounced. I also have the Focloir Poca, but it was too small print for my old eyes so I ordered the larger print version from Litriocht. I occasionally listen to old BBC recordings and short lessons from a guy named Fergal McEgeegan (or something like that). He did a radio series called "Giota beag eile". I didn't really mean to go straight with the Ulster materials but they were all so available and I plan to go to a week at Oideas Gael this summer, so I figured it would prep me somewhat for any Ulster accent I might hear. I also enjoy listening to Raidio Ulster from Belfast during the day at my office. The commercials are in Irish and all the DJ's speak in Irish, but the songs are just contemporary songs in English.

I have a long long way to go, but I've been astonished at how much I've learned in the three months or so. If I had someone to talk with 2-3 times per week I'd have it made, but so far I haven't found anyone and I really am at too basic of a level to have much of a conversation yet.

Adh mor ort agus slan go fóill, (good luck on you and goodbye for now)
Faber MacMhoalain

quote:

Stage IV
...
Join online chat rooms

I see you're getting a bit ahead of yourself already - always a good sign!

Looks fine; all the ones you've mentioned are good solid resources. The one bit of advice I'd add is to start reading (not necessarily translating or understanding every last word, just reading) as soon as you possibly can.

Buy your books - textbooks and reading materials alike - well in advance, and start nibbling on them as soon as you think you're almost prepared. A novel that's at your reading level when you start will be too easy by the time you're halfway through it.

"The one bit of advice I'd add is to start reading (not necessarily translating or understanding every last word, just reading) as soon as you possibly can. "

Abigail, I don't understand your suggestion "to start 'reading' not necessarily translating or understanding every word". How does that help if one doesn't know the meanings of the words. I can't even decipher but a word or two even in the posts in Gaeilge on this forum. I have been off- and- on trying to learn this language for several years. I am just a beginner in most ways,(but senior-aged) though I manage to have very limited vocabulary, fair sentence structure, even though I don't follow a lesson plan. I now have Rosetta Stone Level I which I use every day, and am halfway thru it...so I have some capabilities..also have Buntús (first book)and some of the other usual learning books. Still I can't READ to understanding much of anything from Gaeilge posts here. (:<))

Just a question also ...is it my imagination or are there more words in Irish that begin with "c" than in English or other languages. I have an awful time with "city" chair" "four" for instance....have to think up little mental tricks to remember which one has the "a" or the "i" or the "o" and in which order. again..(:<))
Go raibh maith agat
Jeannette

"How does that help if one doesn't know the meanings of the words."

You start doing it when you understand enough to get the "gist" of the sentences even if there's a word or two in there you don't know.

don't feel the need to obsessively look up words you don't know while reading, if you understand the holistic meaning without it,I think is the advice. Stopping too frequently to look stuff up interrupts the flow and makes reading harding than some missing words.

Naturally, this is not literally step one...

Jason King... Department S?

I am truly grateful for all the advice. I am glad to see the spirit of fraternity develop among language learners that extends even to nascent Irish students such as myself.

To Abigail, Antaine, & the unregistered guest I offer my very first attempt at writing Irish: Go raibh maith agat.

I am learning by myself too. I would also recommend Pimsleur. This gave me the start I needed to keep going with no help close.

Don't know why my previous post didn't identify me, but I was the one who suggested the Tus Maith. Abigail, I too am interested in what simple novel I could read. Even having studied about three months I can't understand much of what is written on this forum in Irish. A little direction would be helpful.

Slan,
Faber

Ps. I've also started making a master list of every word I know in Irish and dividing it into the parts of speech. It is a nice review.

There are a series of novels for adult learners, sometimes with CDs.

I haven't read any of them, so I can't offer any advice.

See e.g. this one
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2172

"Paloma", by Pól Ó Muirí, is often recommended as a first novel (really more of a novella.) Fairly basic vocabulary, footnotes and glossary, plus it comes with an audio CD.

I see that somebody's made up sets of flashcards for the vocabulary in it:
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/user/view/183928
Have a look at some of those... if you recognize most of them already, Paloma is probably a bit easy for you. If you don't recognize any of them - well, that's what the flashcards and the glossary are for!

Another option would be kids' books. Aonghus might be able to recommend some of those; I don't really know what's out there.


Really, just pick up a book, open it at random and see what sense you make of it. Are you missing certain words (maybe even lots of words) but basically understand the sentence? If so, go for it! Is the sentence a blob of quivering grammatical endoplasm studded with random 'agus'es? Hold off on that one a while.

Good: "Now she could see the somethings in front of her, something like two something in a something."
Bad: "Not something something something with the something something and something something in something something something."

Another good method (for me anyway) listen to Irish songs from the Gaeltacht with the lyrics written with English and original Irish translation and underline words or sentences you don't understand. Try and sing along the odd time to learn the prononciation by then you will understand the song better written and when its being sung, you will be able to prononce and understand new things, translate the song after that to English and vice versa and translate your own sentences similar to the lyrics. I do this and it helps a lot.

quote:

Another option would be kids' books. Aonghus might be able to recommend some of those; I don't really know what's out there

There are tons, but I'm not sure how much an adult learner would benefit from them.

Actually, perhaps the graphic novels from Cló Mhaigh Eo would be a good place to start.

http://www.leabhar.com/comics.htm

There are transcripts online in English for some of them.

http://www.leabhar.com/taineng.htm

I found kid's books quite good when learning other languages. Something like well-known fairytales is a good start .. as you know the plot and characters in Cinderella and Snow White, etc

and then you can advance to books for 8-10 year olds ...

I'm not sure how you'd get hold of these easily in Texas??

eadaoin

if i could start again i would make sure i learnt the various forms of words as soon as i learn the base word - would save so much hassle in the future

there are books available for grown up learners , Paloma , Dúnmharú as an Dart , An Tobar.

There are several ladybird (the publisher) fairy tales, at different levels of difficulty available in Irish.

Some examples
Luaithríona/Cinderella
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=5089

Seán agus an Gas Pónaire / Jack and the Beanstalk
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2667

There are several more.

I second the recommendation of graphic novels; they did wonders for my colloquial German. With ordinary literature, it's generally the narration that's the most difficult part. When reading Irish short stories, I steel myself for lengthy descriptive passages by paging ahead to see how much longer before I can get to some nice easy dialogue again.

But most graphic novels are basically wall-to-wall dialogue. It's like a movie, but in printed form so you can take all the time you need to figure out an exchange. And the language is not only mature, it can be downright raunchy; I learned most of my German sexual vocabulary from reading graphic novels (no pun intended).

Ar ndóigh, ná bí ag brath ar an gcineál céanna inneachair i bhfoilseacháin Ghaeilge!

A Abigail,

What dialect is 'Paloma', Ive already read 'An Tobar' but i want more! :P

Standard Irish, with a few Ulster features as I recall (and no surprise there - Pól Ó Muirí is a Belfast man) but definitely standard spelling.

I saw Pól Ó Muirí last year - I had to pick up on one thing he said that ''Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú'' is Munster Irish and he had that in his poem, however it was a very good poem he said. :-)

Jason, a chara,

Maith thú!

I like your plan. While reviewing it, I saw mostly printed materials. I'd suggest some audio ones as well. Someone mentioned the Pimsleur CDs. The mini-lessons on the BBC Ulster site Blas are very good, too, especially the Giota Beag series. Give TG4 and its soap opera Ros na Rún a try. A friend once suggested that I pick one program on Raidió na Gaeltachta, and use it to get used to one person's dialect and way of speaking. I myself like Paidraig Ó Sé's Togha agus Rogha. Here's a link to it:
http://www.rte.ie/rnag/togharoghadesathairn.html

Ádh mór,

Paul