Hello all,

I am a beginning student of Irish and I need to learn what the difference is (and why) between the following forms of "úll" (apple) in these two sentences:

Tá a húll á ithe aici.

Tá a úll á ithe aige.

Ok, I know that, in the first sentence, the use of húll is when a woman is eating the apple (through the use of aici) and in the second úll is used when a man is eating the apple (through the use of aige). Even in Russian, the case of the noun stays the same for all genders (yes: he, she, it). [By the way, what case is this? Accusative or Genitive?] However, unless this goes back to trying to show the difference between how a man or a woman eats an apple or has to do with Original Sin, I do not see the "grammatical" need for "húll" and "úll" at all. Isn't an apple an apple an apple?

As you may see, I cannot discern this very well. I am actually working through the Rosetta Stone special deal for a year for only $300 and, so far, it has been worth it. However, the grammar leaves much to be desired as there really is none. I just glean what I can from charts and learn verbs as I go along and such from other books that I have.

As I just said something that ticked another question, I would also like to ask your "opinion," or "expert opinion," as to the best "grammars" out there in English for Irish.

I can't wait to hear from you! Remember, keep it light, OK?

Thank you all so much and, I am sure, I will be back here at least every week or so.

Anísa

Hi, Anisa! I would translate these as "She is eating her apple" and "He is eating his apple" respectively. ("The apple" would be an t-úll.)

The thing is, "his", "her" and "their" are all spelled the same in Irish - the difference is in their effect on the following word.

a meaning "his" - lenition
a meaning "her" - h prefix on vowels, no effect on consonants
a meaning "their" - eclipsis (including an n- prefix on vowels)

So you have:
a úll / a húll / a n-úll
his apple / her apple / their apple

a chat / a cat / a gcat
his cat / her cat / their cat

quote:

[By the way, what case is this? Accusative or Genitive?]

Nominative. "a húll" is subject of the sentence.

You should try to translate literary:
Tá a húll á ithe aici.
"Is her upple to-his eating by-her."
tá = is
a húll = her apple (a = her, úll = apple)
á = do+a = to-his (do = to, a = his. It is referring to úll, thats why "his", apple is masculine)
ithe = eating
aici = "ag+í" = by her

Less literary: Her apple is being eaten by her.

h-prefix (húll) is due to the possessive pronoun a = her.
Some changes are necessary to differentiate between his/her/their (all "a" in Irish):
a úll = his apple, a húll = her apple, a n-úll = their apple.
a phiorra = his pear, a piorra = her pear, a bpiorra = their pear.
But ambiguity cannot always be avoided:
a líomóid = his/her/their lemon

Well, líomóid is a feminine noun.
So "Her (or his or their) lemon is being eaten by her" is:
Tá a líomóid á hithe aici.
("á hithe" because líomóid is feminine "to-her eating")

Lars

Darn!

That's pretty darn good, Lars!

Ya know, it seems like I am certainly getting MY grammar oats today, eh?

This is really great stuff and please don't take the preceding sentences as either snide or just plain cocky! I REALLY mean them! I LOVE language and, I tell you, learning is such a powerful thing that one must do it ALL the time! I have learned and will ponder all of this in due time and keep it in my "notes" more than likely as long as I study this language (which will be until I die, of course!).

You are one great resource, Lars, and I want to thank you so much for so much help in one fast and furious morning!

Take care,

Anísa