A question came up in our Buntús Cainte study group about whether "ag an" causes eclipsis, and if so, when? In Buntús Cainte, Chapter 9, all of the examples shown with "ag an" do not cause eclipsis to the noun following "ag an," but the examples shown may also be exceptions because of the dntls rule, e.g. ag an scoil, ag an doras, ag an teach.

But are there instances when "ag an" causes eclipsis, and if so when? And is the eclipsis of the noun following the "ag an" dependent on the dialect?

Go raibh maith agaibh.

David, aka Student

"ag an bhfear"
"ag an mbean"
"ag an gcat"
...

It does depend on dialect. In Ulster the rule is lenition; in Connemara it's eclipsis; and in Munster it's eclipsis, but the dntls exception isn't applied so you would also have e.g. "ag an dteach."

The standard is either lenition or eclipsis, your choice (but of course you're encouraged to be consistent about it.)

By the way, most other simple prepositions + article follow the same pattern: ar an mbóthar, faoin gcrann, etc. The ones that don't are "den", "don" and "sa."

Go raibh maith agat a Abigail,

Here are the instances of "ag an" in Chapter 9 of Buntús Cainte:

ag an doras
ag an tine
ag an teach
ag an siopa
ag an scoil
ag an séipéal

Why doesn't Buntús Cainte have any eclipsis in the above instances?

David

Remember: You don't eclipse D,T,S after ag an in Ulster and Connacht Irish.

Looks like a table might come in handy to understand the possible permutations. Here's my start with "bean" and "teach."

	Ulster	Connacht	Munster
bean	ag an bhean	ag an mbean	ag an mbean
teach	ag an theach	ag an dteach	ag an dteach

Corrections and additions welcomed and appreciated - thanks!

David

(Message edited by student on February 23, 2009)

Continuing to build on the table using Abigail's examples above.

	Ulster	Connacht	Munster
bean	ag an bhean	ag an mbean	ag an mbean
cat	ag an chat	ag an gcat	ag an gcat
fear	ag an fhear	ag an bhfear	ag an bhfear
teach	ag an theach	ag an dteach	ag an dteach

Corrections and other examples welcomed.

All right except for "teach" - that should be ag an teach / ag an teach / ag an dteach.

Here, have a go at these:
doras, eitleán, fuinneog, garda, lacha, muc, páirc, scuab

	Ulster	Connacht	Munster
bean	ag an bhean	ag an mbean	ag an mbean
cat	ag an chat	ag an gcat	ag an gcat
fear	ag an fhear	ag an bhfear	ag an bhfear
teach	ag an teach	ag an teach	ag an dteach
doras	ag an doras	ag an doras	ag an ndoras
eitleán	ag an eitléan	ag an eitléan	ag an eitléan
fuinneog	ag an fhuinneog	ag an bhfuinneog	ag an bhfuinneog
garda	ag an gharda	ag an ngarda	ag an ngarda
lacha	ag an lacha	ag an lacha	ag an lacha
muc	ag an mhuc	ag an muc	ag an muc
páirc	ag an pháirc	ag an bpáirc	ag an bpáirc
scuab	ag an schuab	ag an schuab	ag an schuab

I like your additional suggested words Abigail. I can see that you've provided them to exemplify the various constructions with lenition and eclipsis. I probably got "eitleán" wrong, since I think that there's probably an additional "h" or something needed.

Question: Why isn't it "ag an theach?" Is it due to the dntls rule? (Edit to post:) I think I understand now. When you mentioned that the dntl rule doesn't apply, that is in reference to the Munster dialect only, not the Connacht/Connemara dialect, correct?


I'm still wondering why Buntús Cainte doesn't follow any of these formats - does it have to do with Caighdeán Ofigiúil?

This is getting to be a fun exercise and I'm hoping we'll wind up with a comprehensive table for all the dialects. I think I'll plan to include some of the other prepositions that you mentioned above. I wonder if I should include a column for Caighdeán Ofigiúil.


(Message edited by student on February 23, 2009)

ag an dteach

Is aisteach an cuma air seo: urú ar an stíl Mhuimhneach, ach litrithe de réir an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil.

Nope, "eitleán" is grand. Have another look at "scuab" though... what should happen when you try to lenite/eclipse an "sc"?

Buntús Cainte is indeed following one of these formats, the Connacht one. Both the Connacht and Ulster forms are (to the extent we've described them so far) included in the CO. And Munster is identical to Connacht 80% of the time - so in fact the only thing nonstandard in that whole table is Munster "ag an dteach", "ag an ndoras".

Is aisteach go deimhin ach ní raibh fúm ábhar mearbhaill eile a thabhairt sa scéal dó go fóill (ná ceist fuinneog/fuinneoig a tharraingt ach chomh beag.)

Q. what should happen when you try to lenite/eclipse an "sc"?

A. "ag an schuab" for Ulster and "ag an scuab" for Connacht and Munster.

I'll spend more time later today updating the after confirmation of my answer for "scuab."

So, should I have a column for C.O.?

Go raibh maith 'ad.

A Mhic Léinn, ar tharla gur fhéach tú ar an snáithe seo?

SC- cannot be lenited so in such a case there's no change: ag an scuab (in all dialects).

quote:

It does depend on dialect. In Ulster the rule is lenition; in Connemara it's eclipsis; and in Munster it's eclipsis, but the dntls exception isn't applied so you would also have e.g. "ag an dteach."

Except they'd say "ag an dtigh" in Munster, they use "tigh" instead of "teach" ;-)

quote:

By the way, most other simple prepositions + article follow the same pattern: ar an mbóthar, faoin gcrann, etc. The ones that don't are "den", "don" and "sa."

Depends on dialect again. In some places (especially in Munster) you'd have an eclipsis after don, den and sometimes sa...

''Depends on dialect again. In some places (especially in Munster) you'd have an eclipsis after don, den and sometimes sa...'

Only Corca Dhuibhne as far as I know.

A Dhomhaillín agus a Lughaidh

D'fhéach mé, ach rinne mé dearmad air (forgot?) - go raibh maith agaibh.

I'll update the table later this evening.



FRC-GRMA

(Message edited by student on February 23, 2009)

(Message edited by student on February 23, 2009)

Why isn't it "ag an theach?"

Because you are dealing with coronal consonants, that is consonants involving the tip if the tongue. In medieval Irish, when you had 4 dental fricatives, they would not have been set off because the t or d is dental, and the th is interdental, and since you cannot do a t and th at the same time, the process was blocked.

Eclipsis occurred due to a nasal sound that would cause a change in initial consonant of the next word. t and d can and could become d and n respectively (you can see other contexts in which they can). Why it is blocked in the West and North may have to do with generalisation from lenition, or something to do with how the distinction between eclipsis or lention in grammar for motion or state got confused. For example, the cat is jumping 'ar an mbord' (action) and the cat is 'ar an bhord' (state).