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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (November-December) » Archive through November 04, 2008 » Ceist gramadúil agam ort... « Previous Next »

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Jenna Hodges (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 05:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry ahead of time if this ceases to make any real sense.. :P
I'm a bit confused with how the verbal noun bheith would be used, as I am still not sure where the use of verbs ends and prepositional language begins. Would someone please fill me in?
From what I understand, you cannot place a pronoun directly after a verbal noun... Ie... you cannot say ag ceannach mé.

How would you, then say that "one is being a certain way", using the possessive adjective.
Sampla: "He was being ridiculous."
It is my understanding you cannot say: Ag bheith sé seafóideach?
Or would you say: Bhí seafóideach agat?

Again, forgive me if I am way off base. Is mé an tosaitheoir iomlán.

Also...if there is any resource (website, book, or otherwise) that you would recommend, that would be lovely. I've been through éamonn ó dónaill's grammar book, backwards and forwards...and I need a fresh perspective. I have been trying to get ahold of Donna Wong's book (had a lot of trouble with a seller on Amazon).

Thanks ahead of time!

Cheers

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 885
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 08:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Fáilte romhat, a Jenna!

You're right that verbal nouns cannot take a pronoun after them. This is (more or less) because that place has to be filled with a genitive, and those pronouns don't have genitives.
That is, you can say ag ceannach leabhair ("at buying of-book")
but not *ag ceannach é.
Instead you use the possessive pronoun, which in this case combines with "ag" to produce "á":
á cheannach (from *ag a cheannach = "at its buying")

Tá sé ag bheith seafóideach. - He is being ridiculous.
This is fine grammatically but not the most common phrasing. As a general rule of thumb, if an adjective ends in -ach or -úil, it's derived from a noun and you tend to use the noun instead.
In this instance what I would normally say is
Tá sé ag déanamh seafóide. - He is being ridiculous (lit. "doing nonsense.")

If you're still looking for it, Litríocht has Donna Wong's book for €25 plus shipping:
http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2870

(Message edited by Abigail on October 24, 2008)

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 2538
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 01:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Tá sé ag bheith seafóideach. - He is being ridiculous.
This is fine grammatically but not the most common phrasing.



Well, I wouldn't say it's correct since "ag bheith" is never used, as far as I know.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Jenna Hodges (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 04:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ceart go leor...so you wouldn't really ever use ag bheith, then... good to know.
Agus, go rabh maith agat, a Abigail.

Tá ceist eile agam- under what circumstances would one use bheith (I'm quickly becoming interested in bí's functions as a verbal noun, as I am quite puzzled with it.) As seems typical with this verb, it does not always function the way it's English cousin does...and I'm not quite all there yet on when prepositions are used and when to come in with verbs. I know this is a bit of a loaded question, but to anyone wishing to help me out with this- it would be greatly appreciated.

As well- have any of you used Donna's book, and if you did, how do you feel it measures up? I've heard it's a brilliant book for people looking to learn more than one dimensional phrases and beginner's grammar. Naturally, I'm tempted to go ahead and get it, but I know Litríocht is going to charge me at least $15-$20 just for shipping :)...so I want to be certain I'm not buying something that won't be of use to me. I've been through a few grammar books, and I'm working on verbs right now, but, I need some supplementary information.

Cheers

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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
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Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 295
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 10:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

under what circumstances would one use bheith

That's quite an open-ended question--it's the single most common verb in the entire Irish language! Historically, it's a number of different verbs that got folded together into one--and the same is true of English be. It's no wonder their usage shows as many differences as it does similarities.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 270
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 04:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

under what circumstances would one use bheith



The verbal noun "bheith" is used when you use "to be" in English:
bheith ina fhear = to be a man, tú a bheith anseo = you to be here, bheith seafóideach = to be ridiculous, etc.

"Ag bheith" can't be correct, because bheith must not be lenited after ag (so it would be "ag beith"), but that isn't used.

(barring the usefulness of the adjective seafóideach instead of the noun seafóid, I would say that sentences like "being x" could be rendered so:
I'm ridiculous = Bím seafóideach
I'm being ridiculous = Tá mé seafóideach.
(Irish has a special tense where English must use constructions like "being")

Lars



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