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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn
Post Number: 779
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:19 am: |   
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Agh (F) is an old term for cow, ox, and in 'agh dára' for an in-calf heifir (I assumed relating to 'dáir' here ('fertile' as opposed to in heat)
Deer are termed 'agh alla' too.
So, is 'agh' for herd animals and also, what does 'alla' stand for in 'damhán alla'? |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7596
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
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I've always assumed that it meant of the wall "(b)alla"
There is a word "allta":
allta [aidiacht den tríú díochlaonadh]
fiáin.
So I suspect that "agh alla" means wild cattle.
I'll have to do some digging. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7597
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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MacBain says "damhán alla" means "wild little deer" http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb12.html#damhan-allaidh From http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb12.html#damh Dámh = ox, stag and "allaidh" which is "allta" in another guise http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb01.html#allaidh (Message edited by aonghus on October 13, 2008) |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 7598
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:53 am: |
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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn
Post Number: 780
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:04 am: |
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I see; so how did damhán alla come to mean 'spider' too? |
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4187
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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Sa tSean-Ghaeilge:
dam = bó, fia
dam allaid = fia
damán allaid = oisín
Anois, tá rud ann ar a dtugtar "noa term" nó "taboo avoidance term". Mar shampla:
fáel = wolf taboo > mac tíre (son of land) noa
art = bear taboo > mathgamhain (good calf), milchobur (honey lover), béar all noa
tadg = badger taboo > broc noa
? = spider taboo > damhán alla (little fawn) noa
Tabhair faoi deara, áfach, go bhfuil Art agus Tadhg beo fós mar ainmneacha pearsanta.
"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."
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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 179
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 03:40 pm: |
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"Snuadh" is in Dinneen meaning "spider".
Also I think I've read "Dubhán Alla" - "wild little black (thing)" :) - being suggested as the forerunner of "Damhán Alla". Maybe it's just folk etymology.
Séamus Ó Murchadha
Go mBeannuighe Dia Éire Naomhtha!
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4189
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 05:37 pm: |
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Tá "damhán alla" le fáil chomh fada siar leis an naoú haois. Tá gluais ar an bhfocal Laidine "aranearum" sna Milan Glosses: "inna ndamán nallaid" (= of the spiders). Is cosúil go bhfuil an litriú "dubhán" le feiceáil uaireanta, comh maith le "dabhán, mar leaganacha malartacha.
"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."
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Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 05:42 pm: |
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Cad ba chúis leis na geasa?
Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4190
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 06:05 pm: |
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Is féidir leis na hainmhithe seo dochar a dhéanamh don duine. Chreidtí gurbh ionann gnáthainm an ainmhí a rá os ard agus cuireadh a thabhairt don ainmhí. "Ná déan tagairt don rud a chuireann scanradh ort!" Is cuimhin liom daoine, nuair a bhí mé óg, nach raibh sásta an focal "ailse" a rá os ard. Bhíodh euphemisms acu i gcónaí.
"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."
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Ormondo
Member
Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 03:31 pm: |
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Tá sé sin thar a bheith suimiúil. An saintréith Éireannach atá i gceist againn anseo?!
Is cuimhin liomsa freisin gur sheachnaítí an focal "ailse" a rá. B'é an leasainm ar thugadh na "seanóirí" uirthi i m'óige ná "Old Boy".
Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 4193
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 03:45 pm: |
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quote:An saintréith Éireannach atá i gceist againn anseo?! Ní dóigh liom é.
"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."
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