I would have a small question to ask.

In my book of Learning Irish in the vocabulary section of lesson 17 it says for the verbal noun 'to laugh' that it is gáirí. However, nowhere in the book is it indicated what the 2nd person singular imperative (or root form if you prefer) is of this verb. Also, is this a type 1 verb (with 2nd person plural Imperative ending in -igí) or type 2 (with 2nd person plural Imperative ending -ígí)? Also worth mentioning maybe, the book gives in the vocab gáire and gáirí (pl.) as a noun meaning 'laugh(ter)'

Thanks!

According to An Foclóir Beag, the imperative is gáir, plural gáirigí. In other words, it is a regular first declension verb.

Ceist ar na cainteoirí líofa: Cé acu is níos mó coitianta: gáirigí nó bigí ag gáire?

(Message edited by Domhnaillín_Breac_na_dTruslóg on September 23, 2008)

Bígí ag gáire, gan dabht!


Dá ndéarfaí "gáir!" mar ordú dom is é "shout!" an bhrí a thuigfinn leis. "Bí ag gaíre", sin a chiallaíonns "laugh."

"Gáire" ("gáirí" in Cois Fhairrge, apparently just the plural of "gáire") is one of those verbal nouns that exist apart from a verb to a greater or lesser extent. Another one like this is "ag obair". There is no verb "obair" although there is a verb "oibrigh".

In this case there is a verb "gáir", but it normally means "shout" not "laugh". What we say is:

Bhí sé ag gáire.
Rinne sé gáire.
Ná bí ag gáire.
Bhain sin gáire asam.
etc.

Míniú maith, a Dennis. Níl aon fhianaise agam ach ní chuirfeadh sé lá iontais orm dá mba é an seantabharthach seachas an t-iolra a bhí i gceist le "gáirí" Chonamara, mar an gcéanna is na hainm briathracha "brionglóidí" agus "géimní".

""Gáire" ("gáirí" in Cois Fhairrge, apparently just the plural of "gáire") is one of those verbal nouns that exist apart from a verb to a greater or lesser extent."

With verbal adjectives too:
Airigh V count, reckon
Airithe VA perceived

No 'to perceive' verb

Níl aon fhianaise agam ach ní chuirfeadh sé lá iontais orm dá mba é an seantabharthach seachas an t-iolra a bhí i gceist le "gáirí"

B'fhéidir gur é an tabharthach agus an t-iolra araon atá ann? Sa eDIL fuaireas "combái oc garib impu" agus mura bhfuil seachrán orm foirm leanúnach is ea seo (i.e. "ag gáiribh").

quote:

apparently just the plural of "gáire"

Buille faoi thuairim a bhí ann dáiríre.

quote:

Níl aon fhianaise agam ach ní chuirfeadh sé lá iontais orm dá mba é an seantabharthach seachas an t-iolra a bhí i gceist le "gáirí" Chonamara, mar an gcéanna is na hainm briathracha "brionglóidí" agus "géimní".

Hmmm. Tá claonadh ann freisin -(a)í a chur in áit -a/-e ina lán focal i gCúige Chonnacht, aidiachtaí briathartha go háirithe ("fágthaí" in ionad "fágtha", mar shampla) ach uaireanta i bhfocail eile, mura bhfuil dul amú orm.

Maidir le "géimní" agus "brionglóidí", áfach, is ionann iad -- nó an chuma atá orthu ar aon nós -- agus ginideach uatha na n-ainmneacha briathartha "géimneach" agus "brionglóideach" atá in úsáid in áiteanna eile (agus san fhoclóir).

Seantabharthach atá taobh thiar den a lán ainmfhocal briathartha, cinnte, ach ní dóigh liom gurb é sin atá againn anseo.

An tabharthach uatha atá le brath ar na samplaí úd, rud ar léir don tsaol é dá litreoinn i gceart iad! Mo náire orm ach bhíos corraithe aréir faoi rud eile ar fad agus gan ach leathaird á tabhairt agam ar an scríobhaíocht. (Feicim gur scríobh mé "na hainm briathracha" freisin, leagan a thiteann go réidh thar mo bheola ar chúis eicínt ach atá sách breallach ó thaobh gramadaí de.)

"Géimnigh" agus "brionglóidigh" a scríobhtar de ghnáth, ainneoin go bhfuaimnítear an "-igh" mar a bheadh "-í" san iarthar. Beireann sé sin fianaise nach ginidigh uatha iad mar is é "-ighe" nó "-í" an foirceann a bheadh orthu dá mb'ea.

Arís ar ais, dá mba é an chaoi gur tabharthach a bhí in "gáirí" s'againne, níorbh fholáir go mb'ann don leagan "gáireach" mar ainm briathartha baininscneach. Ní heol domsa gur ann nó go mb'ann ariamh. Ní heol dom nárbh ann ach oiread... ach tá chuile sheans gurb é do bhuille-se faoin tuairim is dealraithí.

quote:

"Géimnigh" agus "brionglóidigh" a scríobhtar de ghnáth, ainneoin go bhfuaimnítear an "-igh" mar a bheadh "-í" san iarthar. Beireann sé sin fianaise nach ginidigh uatha iad mar is é "-ighe" nó "-í" an foirceann a bheadh orthu dá mb'ea.

Ah, tuigim anois. Tá mé cinnte go bhfuil an ceart agat. Well spotted!

Hmmm...

Ok so, if I'm understanding correctly, the root or the imperative singular of the verbal noun gáirí (gáire in Standard) would be gáir. But do both words mean 'shout'? If so, how then would you say 'I am laughing' or 'Laugh at him!'? Can the other form gáire be used as a verbal noun with a different meaning/conotation than gáirí?

Also, this question has made me wonder whether a verbal noun can actually be pluralized inside a verbal construction to carry a different meaning? I hope that was a clear enough question.

thanks!

(Message edited by Angmar on September 24, 2008)

A Angmair,

The consensus seems to be that gáir as a simple verb means "shout" and only the verbal noun gáire has the meaning of "laugh". So "I am laughing" is "Tá mé ag gáire" and "Laugh at him!" would be "Bígí ag gáire faoi!"

Abigail and Dennis were actually discussing whether gáirí in fact represents an actual plural form rather than a petrified dative. As far as meaning is concerned, it's moot a point; "Tá mé ag gáirí" is merely a regional variation of "Tá mé ag gáire" in much the same way as "Táim ag gáire".

Oh, tigim anois! Go raibh maith agat!

But then how would you say 'I'm shouting'? Also I'm guessing you would say something like 'Gáir (at him, aige?)!' to mean 'Shout at him!'? Right?

Angmar, Irish as we all know has lots of words for 'shouting' or 'yelling', 'ag béiceadh', 'ag screadach', etc, etc. The problem is that Irish is not based on the same conventions of language as English. You can't just transpose word for word to fit a sentence composed in English and translated into Irish, especially not those important little words like 'ag', 'ar', 'faoi', etc, etc. Far better to learn how to use such words in their most comfortable common phrases like those given by Abigail and Denis above. After all, ordinary everyday speech is made up of mostly well worn phrases.

Seanfhear