A chara,

not until recently I have discovered this series on TG4. I was not really surprised about the result. Everybody who is studying the census carefully and has a little knowledge on current affairs of Ireland, knows about the tiny distribution of real Irish speakers. A little comfort, however, constists of finding a few fluent Irish speakers in each citie. I think there are languages which are in even worse state than Irish. In Europa in general there are mostly minorities which are doing their best to preserve their regional language. I am very concerned about the indigenous languages in the USA, in Australia and in islamic countries. It is a shame that there is cultural imperialism in the USA and in France even today.

But it has not been acceptable how Manchán was treated sometimes in Dublin. Is it too much to employ at least one fluent Irish speaker?

Everybody in Ireland can do something. The Gaeltacht population could decide not willing to suit to English speakers. Every native or fluent Irish speaker has a responsibility for Irish. They do well by passing on their proficiency to children and learners where possible. It´s important that there will always be native speakers or speakers who have learnt it as children throughout the country in order to maintain its authentity. I think it´s useful creating urban Gaeltacht areas, for example quarters or streets like in Belfast. Let us be honest: Not all (young) people want to live in rural areas.

Le meas,

Alexander Dietz

Hi Alexander,

There was an interesting interview with Manchán in this month's issue of Nós*, in which he freely acknowledged that the production team was "playing tricks" on people in order to get the sort of footage they wanted for the show. He stressed that it was meant as entertainment, not a documentary.

http://www.nosmag.com/

Feictear dom go gcuireann an fear chéanna an méid a bhíonn le rá aige in oiriúint dá lucht léite/féachana go minic.

Is mór idir a raibh le rá aige i nós* agus a scríobh sé i mórnuachtáin an Bhéarla.

Alexander, from my experience (I live close to Dublin, and am often in the city) Manchán was looking for a refusal to speak Irish, and went out of his way to get it.

Is maith an rud é ná láithrigh an t-sliocht seo inar ndíospóireacht dheireanach na gcanúintí!

Nuair a éistímse le Raidió na Gaeltachta, nó le haon staisiún, agus má tá Gaolainn bhinn bhlasta Chúige Mumhan á labhairt éistím leis ach, mura bhfuil, ní éistím.

Is fearr Hector briste ná Manchán cliste.

Paul

nó ionracas Des Bishop

Go deimhin, eisean is fearr ar fad den drong.

Gaeltacht people could refuse to speak english and would probably kill off themselves in the process. No english = no tourists, little business investment and a bad image from the rest of Ireland.

Also, what right do i have to tell someone that they have to be a Gaeilgeoir just because they are from/live in a Gaeltacht?

Domhnall,

One could debate that if "no English = no tourists," then no non-English speaking area would have any tourism and that is not the case.

In fact, one could debate that a non-English speaking Gaeltacht could actually draw in more people because of the "exotic" factor.

I think that, if a person is going to go out of their way to visit a Gaeltacht, then it is a good bet they know what a Gaeltacht is...so last thing they want to hear is English in an Irish speaking region.

Also, I have a hard time with anyone even implying that they don't feel they should have to speak Irish because they are in a Gaeltacht. A person going into a Gaeltacht without the intent of speaking Irish should think again, and a person who was born into a Gaeltacht that doesn't desire to speak Irish has the right to leave and not speak Irish.

But if a person is going to reside within one, they have to respect the community. They do not speak for all, and who has the right to try and stop the speaking of Irish because they personally don't feel the desire to?



(Message edited by do_chinniúint on May 06, 2008)

Tagaim leat Do_Chinniúint - maith thú.

A Paul a chara,

Is maith liom do "seanfocal", ta se an greannmhar.

Beir bua agus beannacht

quote:

Go deimhin, eisean [Des Bishop] is fearr ar fad den drong.

Aontaíonn Manchán féin leat:

"Agus ar na rudaí is mó a thugann ardú meanman dom tá Des Bishop."

Dhá fhocal. Turasóireacht Chultúrtha. Sin an rud atá ag teastáil i ndáiríre.

I really don't mean to sound like a pup here but i think if you were to read the books/webpages & reports written in relation to this you may change your view to some extent.

Yes, of course the whole Irish, Celtic and Historical aspects are great. Yes tourists go mad for it. BUT what i'm saying is that if you're a tourist with no Irish and you go to Supermac's on Inis Mór or Dún Aengus or any other service and Gaeilgeoirí ONLY deal in Irish then the tourism industry will go down the drain.

Or if you're Séamus (fear bhéal feirste le beagán Gaeilge) of Rí Na Mara cosmetics, wanting to setup your business in Conamara and Údarás na Gaeltachta and the local suppliers will ONLY deal with you trí Ghaeilge, you're hardly going to setup your business in An Spidéal are you?

A person who was born into a Gaeltacht that doesn't desire to speak Irish has the right to leave **Stay** and not speak Irish.

But if a person is going to reside within one, they have to respect the community. They do not speak for all, and who has the right to try and stop the speaking of Irish **English** because they personally don't feel the desire to?

It works both ways. Goite, is gníomhaí gaelach mise ar nós an chéad dhuine eile ach tá cearta teanga ag daoine is cuma cén áit ina bhfuil siad nó caidé teanga roghnaithe s'acu?

A Dhomhnall,

"...but i think if you were to read the books/webpages & reports written in relation to this..."

Is that where all the information on this is? And here I thought my crystal ball was the only source...LOL ;0)

The truth is that I don't feel that it does work both ways. A Gaeltacht is not some random chunk of land...

How can an English speaker, or any language for that matter, honestly expect to reside and be catered to in English in an area that was specifically set aside and designed for the promotion and preservation of Irish?

If this was a town or city 1 kilometer outside of a Gaeltacht that doesn't have any set goals for the promotion of the language then I would agree 100 percent with you. But in the Gaeltacht is different. The rules are different. You can debate that all you want, but it doesn't change the truth of the matter.

quote:

tá cearta teanga ag daoine is cuma cén áit ina bhfuil siad

An ceart ar fad agat! An réiteach is fearr ná an Ghaeilge a dhéanamh níos tarraintgtí, níos gnéasúla, níos -- uhh -- ardnósaí -- rud atá ag tarlú anois. "Living well is the best revenge." Sin rud is féidir a rá faoi theanga a brúadh faoi chois freisin.

Arís, níor mhaith liom go mbeifeá ag ceapadh gur duine ardnósach mé ach tá mé tar éis 4 bliana a chaitheamh ag staidéar sochtheangeolaíocht na Gaeilge. Mar sin, tá na cáipéisí léite agam, d'fhreastal mé ar na comhdhálacha agus tá bunús le mo thuairimí.

Tá meath na Gaeilge fós ag dul ar aghaidh sna Gaeltachtaí ar an gcéad dul síos agus lámh in uachtar ag an mBéarla i measc an-chuid daoine óga. That's one reason why "How can an English speaker, or any language for that matter, honestly expect to reside and be catered to in English in an area that was specifically set aside and designed for the promotion and preservation of Irish?"

I don't think i'm being over negative. I think it's just a shameful reality.

Dennis, "An réiteach is fearr ná an Ghaeilge a dhéanamh níos tarraintgtí, níos gnéasúla.." Sin an fáth go bhfuil pictiúr nua agus gnéasach agat ansin, an ea!? ;P

This Manachan is a cowboy he went around Dublin trying his best to find Non-Gaeilgeoirí they should of got someone more better and good looking like one of the weather girls on TG4 and they could of been more honest.

I watched all the No Béarla 2 shows and he always choses the bad points.

He is a strange character, but the truth is, I like what he is doing. You have to give him credit for one thing, he gets attention, both good and bad, drawn to the Irish language.

I know that a lot of people do not like him. He seems to be more interested in being sarcastic and pessimistic towards the Irish people and the language than cheerful and optimistic. But that is his approach. He is trying to cause a stir in people by being negative about a topic that the majority of the people always "claim" to take pride in. It is a common tactict used by people today. Negativity sells as easily as sex in our modern world, and he is taking advantage of it. And yes it is true, that his "experiments" are not very scientific, yes they are designed to show the results he wants to show, and yes they really don't do much except make for a spot or two on his show.

But the reality is that he is actually doing a lot of good for the language. Like him or hate him, he is in the country's face saying "prove it" when it comes to the language.

In No Béarla 1, I will admit that I was not impressed with him. I liked what he was trying to do, but I did not agree with his methods at all. But in No Béarla 2 he was much better I think. He wasn't going to random people in the street, he was after the major organizations that are supposed to be leaders in the revival efforts.

I believe that his No Béarla 3 will be even better. You have to remember that he is not a scientist, statistician, or anything of the like. If you have a problem with his facts, then you don't have a problem with him, you have a problem with the show's "behind the scenes" people. The researchers who do the math, the editors/producers/directors who cut and paste the show together to resemble what they want it to, and finally the people who watched him and gave his show some of the highest ratings TG4 has had in a while.

Remember he is just the rather outspoken host of the show. Do you blame the new presenters because you do not like the news they say? Of course not, they are just people doing their job, at least he is more passionate about his work than the average news presenter. Although, it would be nice to have an attractive weather girl doing it ;0)

I will agree however with the very end of No Béarla 2, if Hector was allowed to be the representative of modern Irish, we would need to do the world a favor and put Irish out of its misery ;0)

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on May 10, 2008)

Ní raibh uaidh ach cúpla punt a dhéanamh, as an nGaeilg ina chás seisean, ar nós cuid den dream a raibh sé in ainm is a bheith ina n-éadan.

Dá mba faoi an Ghaeilg a athréimniú, d'fhéadfadh sé tosú anseo: www.manchan.com

Fágaimis marbh é, mar a fágadh a chlár.

Caithimis súil anois ar an suíomh seo go bhfeicfear a bhfuil d'acmhainní Gaeilge ann: http://www.desbishop.com/cursagaeilge-guest.html

Has anybody else had difficulty using Des's course? Far as I can tell, it just doesn't work.

http://www.desbishop.com/cursagaeilge-guest.html

Just went into it now as a guest a Dhomhnaill, and looked at Laethanta agus Míonna in Modúl 2. It all went into place for me and the sound was okay, in fact loud and clear.

I tried to get into the modules under guest and it would not work for me either...

Is this a really new website? I thought about registering to see if that made a difference, and all it said was "Coming Soon." Then it says the same thing when you try to log in also.

Also,

I was thinking about some of the "experiments" being done on the show. In truth, they are kind of creative; however, their results don't mean anything because of the way they are being conducted. For instance, in the experiment where the students had to guess if he was speaking Irish or Klingon, (which is an alien language from Star Trek created by Dr. Marc Okrand).

Basically he gave the students a list of words in both Irish and Klingon and they had to choose if they were Irish or Klingon. If I remember right, the student's percentile was in the 70's. I don't remember what the exact score was to be honest.

But the way he conducted the experiment disqualifies it as being credible. As I have said, he is not and does not claim to be a scientist or anything of the like. But that experiment was not his doing. Being the host of the show, he just administered the little exam.

Even to have established a base credibility, he would have had at least some form of rudimentary control. For instance, he should have given 3 exams. First there would have needed to be an exam in Irish and English, and an exam in Klingon and English, to establish a base knowledge of the student’s familiarity with the languages. Then he could have given the Irish/Klingon exam and compared the results.

Being able to say that students who scored in the 90-100 percentile between the language and English, could only score in the 70’s between Irish and Klingon would not only have been more credible, but I think would have had more impact on the audience.

And even then these results would only reflect the selected people taking part. This is by far his worse crime; he often forgets to include the statement "of the people tested..." He often implies that the results of his experiments are a reflection of all Irish people. And that is not only gross overstatement, but can get him into serious legal trouble.

Statistics 101 will tell you that if he wants to make these claims, he has to have a sampling of at least 5% of the whole population. If we go with the 2006 census of 4.2 million people in Ireland, then he would need at least a random sampling of at least 210,000 people in order to make a claim about the whole of Ireland. What does he normally have in his exams...15-25...people?

However, while his methods need serious work, I must confess that I lack the creativity they have in coming up with fun little experiments. I would never have thought of comparing Irish to Klingon. And assuming that the studens tested had a high degree of Irish, they were only able to tell the difference 70+ percent of the time...lol.