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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2008 (March- April) » Archive through March 26, 2008 » Right movement of subject « Previous Next »

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Bearn
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Username: Bearn

Post Number: 432
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 04:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Can you does this?:

Rith sé amach an tí go tapaidh /he ran out out the house quickly

Rith sé amach go tapaidh é

le díol

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Trigger
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Username: Trigger

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 08:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yeah the ''go'' you use ''go'' for words equivalent to the English words of 'ly' ending, your sentence seems fine to me.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 214
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 03:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"an tí" is not a subject.
The subject of the sentence is "sé" = he.
"Rith sé amach go tapaidh."
There's no need for "é".

Lars

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Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 3549
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 04:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

recte:

amach as an teach
amach as

"An seanchas gearr,
an seanchas is fearr."


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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 434
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2008 - 11:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I was asking due to Modern Irish page 208 which is talking about 'right ward movement of subject, ex:

Léigh sé an leabhar go cúramach

Léigh sé í go cúramach

Léigh sé go cúramach í


(What is the human-level context of this movement? The book does not specify)

My example is what occurs when amach or insteach appear in the sentance

le díol

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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
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Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh

Post Number: 382
Registered: 09-2006


Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 01:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The confusion seems to be that neither amach nor isteach are the subject, in this case, so when you talk about rightward movement of subject in this context, it doesn't seem to make sense. Rightward movement of a prepositional phrase, yes! :)

Am I misunderstanding you?

(Message edited by Domhnall_Ó_h_Aireachtaigh on March 23, 2008)

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 438
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 02:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The idea is to move the subject apparently, to turn a VSO structure to a VOS one for different purposes.

Ya my example was not the best, but it was the ambiguity that struck me in the first place.

le díol

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Lars
Member
Username: Lars

Post Number: 215
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 05:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

I was asking due to Modern Irish page 208 which is talking about 'right ward movement of subject, ex:

Léigh sé an leabhar go cúramach

Léigh sé í go cúramach

Léigh sé go cúramach í


"An leabhar" is object , not subject.
And as Dennis said: You don't go "amach an tí" but "amach as an teach".
"Amach as an teach" isn't a subject nor a direct object, but a prepositional phrase.

in Modern Irish, p. 208 Ó S. is talking about simple personal pronouns as objects and about prepositional pronouns.
So it's: "Léigh sé go cúramach í."

In your example the question is: What's the position of the prepositional pronoun "as" (out of it)?

Rith sé amach as go tapaidh.
Rith sé amach go tapaidh as.
or:
Rith sé go tapaidh amach as.

I don't know. I think I'd prefer the first,
because I would rather not move "amach" to the right and I would not seperate amach from as.

Lars

(Message edited by lars on March 23, 2008)

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Fadas (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 09:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm somewhat at a loss as to what your problem is, Bearn, but "Rith sé amach as go tapaidh" (Lars) seems to this learner also the only way to run..

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Bearn
Member
Username: Bearn

Post Number: 439
Registered: 06-2007


Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I have no problem, I was just interested in how much flexibility one can get from that pattern. You see, Ó Siadhail is not always clear on why one is doing the movement -what is one emphasizing and for what purpose -I am interested in the human level of communication here -I have no problems with the exact mechanisms of the grammar

le díol



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