Here is an interesting phrase that I love to say and had a few questions about...

I know that one says:

Tá súil agam.
Tá dúil agam.
Tá dóchas agam.

I use "súil."

But how would one go on from there? Normally in English we say "I hope that..." Is it the same in Irish?

For instance how would I say something like:

I hope that the sun shines today.

Tá súil agam go tsoilsí an ghrian inniu...???

Maybe you can also say "tá mé i ndóchas" and "tá mé i ndúil".

In NW Donegal we say "tá súil ’s agam" (I dunno where does the ’s come from, maybe under the influence of dóchas).

I hope that > tá súil ’s agam go...

Tá súil ’s agam go soilseochaidh ’n ghrian inniu
Standard: tá súil agam go soilseoidh an ghrian inniu. (if you wanna say "I hope that the sun will shine today").

Eclipse of s > s (not ts-). ts- is only the lenited form of s after the article "an". In almost all dialects, s doesn’t change when eclipsed (and it becomes z in Cleare Island).

Lughaidh...

I am not certain I understand what you mean:

"Eclipse of s > s (not ts-). ts- is only the lenited form of s after the article "an". In almost all dialects, s doesn’t change when eclipsed..."

Can you give some examples?

And "go soilseochaidh" almost looks Scottish. How far north are you?

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on January 08, 2008)

ts- is no real "eclipse"
t-prefix is originally part of the article.
(the article once contained a letter -d, which was devoiced by following [h], i.e. lenited s, and so was pronounced [t]. Except in such cases of devoiced -d this letter was elided. The spelling ts- is just a convention. A more lucide spelling would perhaps be "-d sh-", e.g. "an tsúil" < "and shúil")
So t-prefix only occurs after article and never (!) in eclipsing situations.

The letter s [s] is not eclipsed, except in some dialects.
Eclipsed s is pronounced [z] in Cleare Island but still spelled "s"

So it is "go soilsí" and not "go tsoilsí" (never!).

"Soilsí" is subjunctive mood.
You could perhaps express a wish like "Go soilsí an ghrian dúinn!" (May the sun shine for us!)
But after "I hope" I'd use future tense, indicative mood, i.e.
"... go soilseoidh an ghrian inniú"
In Ulster there is no long o-sound in future endings, but something like [ohi] or [ahi], so the old spelling "go soilseochaidh" is still alive there.

Lars

Isn't it "is agam" > "s'agam"???

I mean "is" shortens and like in IS sentences only 's is left.

nó "so agam", b'fhéidir?

Hmm...

I took "go tsoilsí" straight from An Focloir Beag website.

http://www.csis.ul.ie/scripts/focweb/Exe/focloir.exe

Is this a serious typo on their website?

Hmm...the link would open for me...type "soilsigh" in the search and scroll down to the verb.

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on January 08, 2008)

quote:

"Eclipse of s > s (not ts-). ts- is only the lenited form of s after the article "an". In almost all dialects, s doesn’t change when eclipsed..."

Can you give some examples?

an tsráid (lenition)
ins an tsaol (lenition, since it’s Donegal)
tús an tsaoil (lenition)

ár solas (eclipsis)
go soilseann (eclipsis)
nach seasann (eclipsis)
bhur síocháin (eclipsis)
...

quote:

And "go soilseochaidh" almost looks Scottish. How far north are you?

Scottish Gaelic: gun soillsich
Go soilseochaidh is just what everybody says in Donegal, I think, and it was the old form as well.
In the other dialects, they've shortened the -eochaidh to -eoidh.

quote:

The letter s [s] is not eclipsed, except in some dialects.
Eclipsed s is pronounced [z] in Cleare Island but still spelled "s"

Depends how you spell. :-)
`

quote:

"... go soilseoidh an ghrian inniú"

inniu, short u.

quote:

In Ulster there is no long o-sound in future endings, but something like [ohi] or [ahi],

normally [ahi], or [ahə] before subject personal pronouns. The -eo-/-ó- is short, simply because in Ulster, unstressed vowels are always short. And normally, unstressed -eo- or -ó- are pronounced as a short a [a].

quote:

Isn't it "is agam" > "s'agam"???

I mean "is" shortens and like in IS sentences only 's is left.

It wouldn't mean anything, to me. An tsúil s’agam = my eye, ok. But Tá súil ’s agam > there is a my eye? In a book (Seanchas Annie Bhán) they give this hypothesis: it would be "súileas", from súil + -eas under the influence of "dóchas". It may be true.

quote:

I took "go tsoilsí" straight from An Focloir Beag website.

http://www.csis.ul.ie/scripts/focweb/Exe/focloir.exe

Is this a serious typo on their website?

Aye. Quite a shame to find that on such a website. The same mistake seems to occur with any verb that begins with s- (I tried with "séan"). Look at any paper dictionary and any grammar book, and you'd find: when s is eclipsed, it remains s. There must be a problem in the programming of An Foclóir Beag. Maybe it would be a good idea to write to the people who've put it online to let them know...

quote:

Maybe it would be a good idea to write to the people who've put it online to let them know...

It would. But they may know. There are several bugs that they know about, but they can't get funding for somebody to work on it.