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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6330 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 08:42 am: |
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http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=2448&viewby=date quote:The commissioner also requested more help from the Irish authorities in recruiting translators and interpreters to meet demands at EU level. But he insisted the commission was fulfilling its own commitment to the Irish language. Ach.... http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=2451&viewby=date quote:De réir an choimisinéara tá fadhbanna ann i gcónaí maidir le heaspas aistritheoirí agus ateangairí le Gaeilge agus leis an gCaidheán Oifigiúil gramadaí atá ar fáil dóibh. Ag caint dó le Lá Nua inné, áfach, dúirt an Dr Pádraig Ó Laighin, Cathaoirleach Stádas, go bhfuil an méid a dúirt an Coimisinéir Orban míchruinn agus gurbh é an drogall atá ar an gCoimisiún daoine a earcú an fhadhb is mó atá ann faoi láthair. |
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 750 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 09:37 am: |
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Ah. Nach suimiúil sin! Nach sin mar a bhíonn. |
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Mickrua
Member Username: Mickrua
Post Number: 116 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 12:02 pm: |
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"This has led other Irish language authorities and universities to fill the gap, which has resulted in the promotion of an alternative standard that partly conflicts with the official one." Aontaím ar fad le seo m.sh ar TG4 tá sé de chleachtú ag na tuairisceoirí "sa chathair ", 'sa chontae' ,'sa bhaile' a rá cé gur tógadh mise (i nDúich Sheoigheach , Tuaisceart Chonamara) le Gaeilge an Iarthair 'sa gcathair' ,'sa gcondae', 'sa mbaile'. Glacam leis go bhfuil Gaeilge Thír Chonaill "difriúil" thar "Gaeilge an Iarthair" ach faoi láthair níl bun nó barr ar Chaighdeán na Teangan. Táim ag déanamh scrúdú teangan le haghaidh post sa AE mar Chúntóir Teangan ar an gceathrú lá fichead i mB.A.C. Tá eolas faoin AE de réir dealramh níos tábhachtaí ná líofacht i nGaeilge agus mar sin níl a fhios agam an n-éireoidh liom (Message edited by mickrua on October 15, 2007) |
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Josh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 01:05 pm: |
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What is the commissioner talking about? It has been frequently stated on this list that when the CO was introduced it was stated to be an internal parliamentary standard in order to transcribe debates in a uniform way. When did the Dail ever vote for a new standard? Never. It has never been discussed by Irish parliamentarians, not even for 10 seconds. It is just an internal civil-service thing. It is even **explicitly** stated in the CO documents that it does not replace Irish grammar as understood in the Gaeltacht. There is no reason why anyone, including the universities mentioned should not publish grammar books that conflict with the one published by the civil service for its own internal use. The CO is no more authoritative than the Chicago Manual of Style is in English. To the extent that it contains a huge number of grammatical mistakes, it does not have the authority the European Commission thinks it has. Which law, which Act of the Irish Parliament, gives the civil service the right to impose their internal style guide on the nation? There is no such law. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2029 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 02:42 pm: |
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quote:leis an gCaidheán Oifigiúil an Cáidheach Oifigiúil :-D Guys, do u think I could try to be one of the EU official translators? I heard it was very well paid :-) if the CO is only stuff for official Irish State stuff, I can write my translations in Gweedore Irish :-D Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 751 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 03:23 pm: |
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Tá sa chathair agus sa gcathair araon inghlactha sa CO. |
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 560 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 04:16 pm: |
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Níl. Tá rogha saor idir séimhiú agus urú tar éis bunáite na réamhfhocal simplí, ach i ndiaidh sa, den agus don, "is é nós an tséimhithe is inleanta" dar leis an gcóip s'agamsa den leabhrán. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6331 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 04:57 pm: |
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Ní bhréagnaíonn sin an méid a dúirt Séamas. Má tá rud amháin ina rud "is inleanta" fágann sin go bhfuil nósanna eile inleanta. Tá difear idir moladh agus riail! |
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 752 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 05:52 pm: |
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Sea, tosaíonn beagnach gach riail sa CO leis na focail 'is iondúil go....' |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2031 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 06:36 pm: |
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In New Irish Grammar, they say this (I don't quote it, I just summarize the rule): - always séimhiú after den, don, sa - séimhiú or urú after faoin, ón and all the other simple prepositions (not those followed by the nominative nor those followed by the genitive, of course). So far i've never seen any sa/don/den + urú in official texts or in anything written in the CO. Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 561 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 06:38 pm: |
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Seo an sliocht atá i gceist ina hiomlán: Nóta:- Ainmfhocal agus Aidiacht i ndiaidh réamhfhocail agus an ailt. Is féidir séimhiú nó urú a dhéanamh ar ainmfhocal i ndiaidh an ailt nuair a thagann réamhfhocail dá luaitear in 1(a) thuas roimhe, e.g., ag an fhear nó ag an bhfear; ag an bhean nó ag an mbean. Má tá aidiacht ag gabháil leis an ainmfhocal séimhítear í más ainmfhocal baininscneach atá roimpi, e.g., ag an fhear beag, ag an mbean mhór; ar an bhfear beag, ar an mbean mhór. Tá comhúdarás ag an dá nós, ach i gcás den, don, san [sic] is é nós an tséimhithe is inleanta. Maidir leis an liosta "in 1(a) thuas", seo é: ag, ar, as, chuig, faoi, le, mar, ó, roimh, thar, tríd, um. Tabharfar faoi deara nach n-áirítear de, do, ná i sa liosta. I bhfianaise sin agus na tráchta faoi leith ar shéimhiú ina ndiaidh siúd (agus tugtar faoi deara gur trácht chinnte é ó thaobh na gramadaí de) is é an t-aon tátal is féidir liomsa a bhaint as ná go rabhthas ag iarraidh difríocht a dhéanamh idir an dá ghrúpa réamhfhocal, .i. a rá nár cheart ach amháin an séimhiú a chleachtadh tar éis den, don, sa. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Domhnall
Member Username: Domhnall
Post Number: 1250 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 06:45 pm: |
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Is fíor go bhfuil an-airgead ann - €86,000 in aghaidh na bliana. Bítear ag súil le rud as an ngnáth .i. an caighdeán oifigiúil, níl Gaeilgeoirí atá líofa sa teanga in ann é sin a shásamh dá bharr ní thugtar post dóibh. Truflais atá ann i ndáiríre. Tuigim Gaeilge Uladh chomh maith le gach canúint eile. Dar liom ba chóir go mbeadh cead le MA san aistriúchán dul leis - cuma cén blas nó canúint atá in úsáid ag an duine. A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river
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Seanfhear
Member Username: Seanfhear
Post Number: 24 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:21 am: |
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So now, having finally obtained full recognition for the language after 33 years, we have a 'problem' of insufficient translators at the EU to enable its official papers, emails, etc, to be disseminated through Irish. How come? Haven't we been pushing for this to happen all along? How is it then that we were caught on the hop, so to speak? Why were not sufficient translators trained in preparation for such a signal event in modern Irish history, our language, once reviled by the rulers of our country, now elevated to equal status among the national languages of Europe? There is a pattern here that could be likened to the denial of life-giving oxygen to a critically ill hospital patient. Look at the record, the lack of enthusiasm for Gaelicisation back in the 1920s when much of the old British-trained administration in Dublin was retained as a professional civil service by the new Irish Free State, the initial failure to insist on it being a full European language on entry to the then Common Market in 1973, the anti-Irish 'Freedom Of Language Movement' so-called, the closure of Irish Teachers Training Colleges, the seemingly intractable lack of textbooks for the Gaelschools at least up until very recent times, etc, etc, etc.. Disinterested observers might be forgiven for asking how serious we Irish are about our language and why the rest of Europe should be concerned if we are not. Maybe its time for 'STÁDAS' to be re-energised? Seanfhear |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6332 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 06:16 am: |
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Níl siad imithe, bíodh fhios agat. However, what is going on is the usual buckpassing. There were more than enough candidates for the jobs, and most of them met the criteria, but they weren't hired. And I suspect the CO was only brought into the mix at all because Maolmhaodhóg Ó Ruairc, whose hobby horse simplification of the grammar is, is an influential person in the Translation Dept in the EU. |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 06:37 am: |
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Á......Maolmhaodhóg Ó Ruairc! Sin teoiric iontach maith a Aonghuis |
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Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Member Username: Séamas_Ó_neachtain
Post Number: 753 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 09:42 am: |
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Go sábhála Dia sinn. Tá súil agamsa, má dhéantar CO nua, go ndéantar níos cuimsithigh é, maidir leis na canúintí, ionas go mbeadh sé inghlactha ag níos mó daoine. Ní ghlacfar le haon rud radacach mar a mholann Ó Ruairc. Ní thabharfaí aon aird don CO má dhéantar amhlaidh. Níor fhéach mé sna leabhair mé fhéin, maidir le sa, agus géillim, mar sin. Úsáidim séimhiú mé féin, pé scéal. ACH - ba chóir go luaitear an t-urú sa CO (mura bhfuil sé ann), mar úsáideann mórán daoine é. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 591 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 09:50 am: |
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An nglactear le canúintí i dteangacha oifigiúla eile an AE le haghaidh caipéisí ? |
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Mise_fhéin
Member Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
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Ceist maith a fhirn, anois níl mórán cur amach agamsa ar theangacha eile, mar sin an féidir leat míniú dhom an bhfuil mórán canúintí eile sna teangacha oifigiúla eile |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 6334 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:44 am: |
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Tá, ráidhse. http://french.about.com/od/dialfrance/French_Dialects_Patois_and_Regional_Langua ges.htm Ach tá caighdeán nadúrtha oifigiúl ann chomh maith. Ní raibh an deis ag an ngaeilge a leithéid a fhorbairt san aois seo. (Bhí sé ann le linn na mBard). Sop in áit na scuaibe is ea an CO mar sin. Ach úsáidtear i dteach Laighean é, agus oibríonn sé. Leithscéal atá sa ráiteas thuas ag Orban. Seo an rud a scríobh Pádraig "Stádas" Ó Laighin: (nasc thuas) quote:Dhiúltaigh an Dr Ó Laighean an méid a bhí le rá ag an gCoimisinéir Orban faoin ngá atá ann leis an gCaighdeán Oifigiúl a uasdátú chomh maith. 'Ní thuigim an gearán seo,' ar seisean. 'Cén uair go deireanach a bhfuair siad cóip de Chaighdeán Oifigiúil an Bhéarla ó Rialtas Shasana? 'Tá Foclóir Uí Dhónaill agus neart téarmaíochta ar fáil, agus graiméir chaighdeánaithe. 'Don té atá cumasach agus gairmiúil, níl aon ghéarchéim i gceist maidir le caighdeán.' |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 594 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 11:03 am: |
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Tá an ceart ag aonghus, níl teanga gan a chanúintí. |
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Seosamh
Member Username: Seosamh
Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:26 pm: |
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Glac uaim é, ní fheicfear aon ghiotamáil thart ar athchaighdeánú a chairde. Is í laige chomhluadar na Gaeilge a cheadaíos daoine nach n-oibríonn i réimsí Gaeilge a ladar a shá isteach i dteanga nach dtuigid. Daoine a bhfuil a réim oibre i dteangacha eile, caighdeánaídís na teangacha eile sin, más féidir leo. Ní chaighdeánóidh, ar ndóigh. Ní fhéachfaidís lena gcaighdeánú ach oiread, mar go bhfuil comhluadar teangacha eile sách téagarthach iontu féin le nach ndrannfaidís, lucht féincheaptha athchaighdeánú na Gaeilge, leo. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 598 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:41 pm: |
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Cad iad na teangacha AE nach bhfuil caighdeánaithe? |
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Seosamh
Member Username: Seosamh
Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:51 pm: |
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Deamhan ceann ar bith a Fhirn, ach an t-aon cheann amháin a shíleann siúd nach bhfuil (cé gur caighdeánadh cheana í, tá a fhios againn)! |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 2032 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 01:26 pm: |
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Níl teangaidh ar bith níos caighdeánaithe ná ’n Fhraincis: le corradh is 100 bliain, ghníonn an Rialtas a dhícheall le achan teangaidh eile a mharbhadh ins an Fhrainc (agus tá chóir a bheith éirithe leis anois). I bhfad níos measa ná Rialtas na Ríochta Aontaithe (!!!), agus anois ghníonn an Ríocht sin cupla rud ar son na dteangthach beag, nuair nár athraigh Rialtas na Fraince ar chor ar bith le corradh is 100 bliain óna thaoibh sin dó (cha rabh ariamh ach amadáin i Rialtas na Fraince, cibé ar bith, agus is amadáin a’ chuid is mó do na Francaigh, mar sin vótálann siad ar son amadán gomh maith, go nádúrtha). Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 599 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 02:04 pm: |
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"Deamhan ceann ar bith a Fhirn" ? Ó, go nearta Dia do cheann, a mhic! |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 600 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 02:08 pm: |
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A Lughaidh, Ní hionann tabhairt ar chaighdeán teanga agus cosc a chur ar theanga eile. Dhá rud ar leith iad. Ní hionann tabhairt ar chaighdeán teanga agus cosc a chur ar chanúint ach an oiread. Caighdeán an teanga scríofa is mó a bhíonn i gceist agus labhtear teangacha níos mó ná a scríobhtear iad. |
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Seosamh
Member Username: Seosamh
Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 02:23 pm: |
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Nach fearnúil do mhéar ar clár? Go dtuga Dia tuilleadh ceisteanna duit a fhreagróir féin a dhiúlaigh raithnigh, a deirim. |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 601 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 02:40 pm: |
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fhad is a bhfuil fhios agat i do cheann istigh cad tá i gceist agat. ( mar ní heol domsa ) ;-) |
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Seosamh
Member Username: Seosamh
Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 02:55 pm: |
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Is 2igh gur mithid domsa 'go nearta Dia do cheann, a mhic' a rá leat féin mar sin? |
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Fearn
Member Username: Fearn
Post Number: 603 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 06:44 am: |
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2igh = dóigh ????????? tuige nach "2í" ??? Gabh mo leithscéal, a sheosaimh, bhain mé ciotrainn tuisceana as do chuid cainte agus mé á léamh go gasta mear. An maithfidh tú mé feasta? |
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Seosamh
Member Username: Seosamh
Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 01:14 pm: |
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Ara níor thada é a Fhirn. Tá a fhios agam go maith gur duine ceart thú. Is 2igh go bhfeicfead ag an Oireachtas thú ach nach mbeidh a fhios againn a chéile. Ceannód deoch duit má bhíonn tú thart. |
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