I have been lead to believe that the word Siochánta means 'peaceful' in English. I suppose my first question is, is this true?

And secondly if it is, how do I pronounce it. I have a very rough idea which I have put down below, I would very much appreciate help from someone

sh-ee-ow-k-aw-nta

Well in a way, I suppose...

Síochánta (with a long i) is pronounced "shee-khahn-tuh", ie. [ˈʃiːhantˠə] (Ulster), [ˈʃiːχɑːntˠə] (Munster & Connaught).

Ch is never pronounced like a k (in any word), and the o isn't pronounced here, it's just here to show that "ch" is broad.

A Lughaidh,

"Suíochán" a deireas i gConamara (amhal's dá mbeadh "garda an tsuíocháin" á rá). Tá aimhreas orm mar gheall ar do mholadh Muíneach chomh maith.

Thanks for that Peter but I am afraid my gaelic does not extend to sentences.....

Sorry for that, but my post was a comment on what Lughaidh had written above. I said "síochán" is traditionally pronounced in Connemara with a broad s as if spelt "suíochán". And probably the Munster form differs from the standard too. Neither of these comments would be of much use to you, course.

I for one would suggest "suaimhneach" as the Irish equivalent of "peaceful". "SOO-uhv-nukh" would roughly represent standard pronunciation.

"Siochánta"

But this means 'stiff from cold'!

Bearn, I think you mean "siocánta". You don't need any h there since it's pronounced [k].

Grma a Pheadair, cha rabh ’s agam sin.

mmm this is all interesting - so to be more acurate the word suaimhneach is probably a more acurate translation for peaceful. Thus the pronounciation would be SOO-uhv-nukh as mentioned by Peter. Do I assume this is correct?

"the pronounciation would be SOO-uhv-nukh"

No, I'd say [s̪ˠuəβˊɲəχ] or even [s̪ˠuəβˊ(ə)nəχ]

Wow I really have stepped into something a little more than I initialy thought. I am afraid I do not understand the symbols being used here. if we could use normal letters to describe the sounds that would be so much easier for me.

I do appreciate the efforts made though by people trying to explain this to me.

Well if you have both, you are more choices, but I understand. I usually think it is best to answer fully beyond the person asking the question. I read other threads not directed to me at all, but thats me.

When I make it, it feels to me like 'soo-ah-vny-ax' the 'ny' been the n version of the l in 'million' (like 'ly' if you catch my drift -it depends on if you pronounce that way, of course). I suppose the middle n in 'minion' for many speakers is like that. ax is the ch in Scottish 'loch'

Peter's is fine.

For what it's worth, that "mhn" combination in the middle of the word can be pronounced at least three different ways depending on dialect. (There's a standard orthography and grammar for official use in Irish, but no such thing as one standard pronunciation.)

What are the versions? OCD dont let me down now...

Well, for starters the "mh" can get de-aspirated (is that what you call it) to just plain "m" in Connemara. Then there's "mn" vs. "mr" too.

And I don't know this for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if you had a couple more variations: "suíneach" for example, analogous to the way "cuimhne" is pronounced in Spiddal (and probably other parts of Cois Fharraige too, I don't know.)

I think there may be something about it in chapter 7 of "Stair na Gaeilge" as well, but I don't have the book any more to check.

I think that is a Munster thing to drop mh and lengthen the prior vowel.

The apparent lack of lention in mh medially goes back to the day of (my old friend) pervasive bi-labialisation, whereby heavy nasialisation coupled with the spread lips meant people kept pronouncing it as 'm' even if they regarded it as 'mh'. Conemara may have kept it m over time.

I expected the change to r from n, but what seems to occur most often is that the old rule, that of a plain n in medial position there has given way to the strong slender n, but the change to r did not occur in places like Donegal. I have not seem the change in r in that position, even tho I have looked for it. Maybe Lughaidh or Dennis knows

So some of the possibilities are for suaimhneach are?:


Donegal:
súimnneah

Iarthar:
súivreach
suaimhneach
suaimneach
suaivreach

Mumhan:
suíneach
suaimneach

Conamara

/si:m'r'əx/

so real examples would be better than the rule based approach i used

Bearn wrote:

quote:

"the pronounciation would be SOO-uhv-nukh"

No, I'd say [s̪ˠuəβˊɲəχ] or even [s̪ˠuəβˊ(ə)nəχ]

Dental s???


According to "An Teanga Bheo", suaimhneach is pronounced SOO-uh-nyakh in Donegal, ie. [ˈsˠuˑəɲah]. As if it were suaineach.

What's wrong with dental s? The original (and best!)

As far as I know, dental s doesn't exist. If you pronounce an s there, you get an English "th" as in "both". That sound doesn't exist anymore in Irish.

there is a difference -when i do it 'dental' it is really between teeth and ridge -you are right it would go to a dental fricative if plonked on teeth like t or l

It is dental in some languages. The tongue tip is a bit farther away from the teeth than in 'th'. I think it's like that in Gaeilge too.
However in English it's alveolar.

ok, to get back to my original post, you guys seem to be going off on one here,

Siochanta = stiff from cold - possibly pronounced 'shee-khahn-tuh'

suaimhneach = peaceful - probably pronounced 'SOO-uhv-nukh'

all in agreement say aye!

Síochánta - Peaceful, pacific.

Siocánta - Frosted, chilled, congealed.

Note the difference in spelling -two different words. Your first choice was right and it would be pronounced as you wrote above.

quote:

Siochanta = stiff from cold - possibly pronounced 'shee-khahn-tuh'

I think you meant "siocánta", which is pronounced "sho-kahn-tuh". (Since "sioc" is pronounced "shock").

quote:

It is dental in some languages. The tongue tip is a bit farther away from the teeth than in 'th'.

Called dental, but it is not really articulated on the teeth, 'cause it would sound as a [θ].

I don't think Irish s is dental. According to 'Bunchúrsa Foghraíochta', it is alveolar (see p. 66). And I don’t hear much difference with English s, except that Irish s is velarised.

Marianna - thank you very much. Now going to get my tongue around it.