To all, I am new to this forum and on the off chance that anyone could help me on this topic I said I'd post! I am sitting the Blackhall Place Irish exam in a couple of weeks and was wondering if anyone could help me out in preparing for this. I am Irish and so studied Irish in school, however that now feels like more than a lifetime ago! Anyone aware of what this exam encompasses etc. Thank a million, Louise

Má tá cabhair ar bith ort, cuir do cheist anseo

If you need any help just ask here...

Thanks Domhnall, that is much appreciated. I have seen the law Society guidlines and I find them extremely vague and unhelpful from a how to prepare/study perspective. Also it being a subject I studied for so many years I feel it unnecessary and frankly now probably too late to do a course to prepare for the exam, however on the other hand I am still waiting for them to send me the past papers that I paid for and although I have photocopied fiche blian ag fas, the translation part is proving a tad difficult!All in all, it is not going too well! I am also even trying to figure out where to get a nice basic essay type phrase book for the esay you have to write, which I know is supposed to be notoriously basic, however even the basics depressingly are now lost on me!Thanks for replying, much appreciated!

Well don't lose hope that's what myself and others are here for!

Once you have learned things once, they will be a lot easier to re-learn! :)

What about a trip to the Gaeltacht / visit a conversation group

Or even easier - lash on tg4 / raidió na gaeltachta..

Instead of getting a whole course why not just brush up with a 2nd level teacher or maybe something like Turas Teanga...

Conas a mbeidh do scrúdú ag rith?

Exam is on June 28th in Dublin. Problem is I know that it is meant to be easy and so have been sitting back doing nothing but now I am realising how near it actually is!.... def will go with the TG4 suggestion.... why I didn't think of that I don't know! Ros na run all the way!! Working full time so unfortunately don't have time for a trip to the Gaeltacht, although I remember how much fun I had last time I did that... what great craic that was! I have found the paragraphs that regularly come up for translation but unfortunately I believe they are potentially too long to ask to be translated in this forum.... they're about 16 lines each i think!If anyone thinks of standard oral basic questions, ie work, family, where you live etc. it would just be great if you could email them to me () or post them here, oral is 3 minutes and very basic, it's just stirring up the cobwebs that I would love a bit of help with!
Thank a million everyone for posting, ye are amazingly supportive!

quote:

I believe they are potentially too long to ask to be translated in this forum.... they're about 16 lines each i think

So? We like a challenge!

But the website link I gave above seemed to have example papers, and I assume example answers?

Well if ye don't mind then I might put them up (would be great help)! No, Law Society are crazy, you have to send €5 for past papers and no example answers are given... looking for people to spend the money on doing one of their site recommended courses.... all a little bit of a crazy make money fast scheme in my opinion!

Well, they are Lawyers, after all...

Very true!!
Have started the translations and am managing some of them! woohoo!
Could someone translate for me;
Amach linn agus faobhar fuinn chun lui cois clai agus poit a chur orainn fein leis an siuicre.
(apologies for the lack of fadas!)

Amach linn	out we went
agus faobhar fúinn	and a keeness on us
chun luí cois claí	to lie by the fence
agus poit a chuir orainn féin	and to get drunk on
leis an siucra	with the sugar**

** Not sure if this is slang for something stronger...

"sneachta" gan dabht

Excellent, thank you so much Aonghus. Very wierd story to have us translating! Sorry about this but any chance you could translate:

Do bhi tigh na mbocht an-ghairid duinn, mar a raibh go leor daoine agus a mhachail fein ar gach duine acu, ach aon dream amhain go raibh an-thoir againn orthu, b'iad san na dallacain. Is mo trathnona maith a chuamair suas chuchu ag imirt cleas orthu, cleasa ar mhaithe linn fein. Ba mhor e ar nduil sa tsiuicre, agus is acu sud a bhiodh se agus e a deanta sua go deas i malai acu, agus mise a ra leat go bhfaigheadh se stracadh maith uainn fein nuair a dh'fhaighimis an chaoi air agus b'fhuirist an chaoi sin d'fhail, go mormhor ar na dallchain mar ni raibh aon radharc acu orainn.

I know I am pushing it a little with this one....sorry. have been told that we don't need to have the exact direct translation.... thanks again!

Louise

quote:

Do bhi tigh na mbocht an-ghairid duinn, mar a raibh go leor daoine agus a mhachail fein ar gach duine acu, ach aon dream amhain go raibh an-thoir againn orthu, b'iad san na dallacain. Is mo trathnona maith a chuamair suas chuchu ag imirt cleas orthu, cleasa ar mhaithe linn fein. Ba mhor e ar nduil sa tsiuicre, agus is acu sud a bhiodh se agus e a deanta sua go deas i malai acu, agus mise a ra leat go bhfaigheadh se stracadh maith uainn fein nuair a dh'fhaighimis an chaoi air agus b'fhuirist an chaoi sin d'fhail, go mormhor ar na dallchain mar ni raibh aon radharc acu orainn.

I started translating til I got sick of the lack of fadas. Words marked with asterisk, I was unsure about.

The "poor house" was very *brief for us, as there were many people there and something wrong with every one of them, except for one group we really liked, they were the *retards. Many an nice afternoon did we go up and play a trick on them, tricks for our own enjoyment.

So sorry for the lack of fadas but couldn't figure out how to add a fada over a letter, so sorry about that I know it must have been very annoying. I do appreciate you taking the time out to translate for me. Thanks a million, Louise

an ghairid dúinn = very close to us.

Louise,
How about you give it your best stab, leaving the irish words when you don't know them, and let us polish it?

You'll learn more that way.

If you are using a PC, then pressing the AltGr key at the bottom right of your keyboard while pressing the vowel will do the trick

áóúíé!

dallacháin = blind people

Sounds like a plan. Go raibh maith agat. á - can't believe doing the fada is as easy as that!

an bhfuil gruaig fhionn agat?

Goite Bearn!

Stop é sin!
Más fear grinn thú, tá sin togha.. Ach ná bí tusa ag caitheamh anuas ar bhaill eile!

Buachaill dána!

Hi- was just googling the first irish exam to see if I could see anything that would help.

You can buy the English translation of fiche blian which has helped me alot.

Best of luck- if anyone knows anything about the format for the oral I'd really appreciate it.

Hi there,

I am also sitting the exam on Thurs and something has cropped up which I can't fathom!. Past tense of 'we went' as far as I can remember is 'Chuamar', however i keep seeing it with an 'i' thrown in 'chuamair' can you let me know which is correct??? go reaibh mile maith agaibh!

I've never come across it with an 'i' ?
Maybe it's a dialect thing?

"Chuamar" is standard, "chuamair" I believe is Munster.

yeah I think so - was just worried that all my memory from school was incorrect!

Yeah: chuamar = Standard; chuamair = Munster.

Just curious - do the grading rules take into account dialectical variations, as discussed above, or are the only "correct" answers those of The Official Standard?

Regarding "chuamair" and "chuabhair".

I might be wrong - but no dialects outside of Munster use this forms anymore - "chuaigh muid" and "chuaigh sibh" is rather said. So it is curious that CO is insisting on a form no dialect is using, 'cause the only dialect that uses it has a slender "i". Please note that in 3rd person plural (chuadar) r is always broad in Munster.

For the exam in question students will be given en extract in irish from Fiche Blian ag fas and asked to translate into english - no problem. Then an extract in english and ask to translate back to Irish - as far as I am aware you must translate so that it simply makes sense and not 100% correct translation to original i.e. Dingle irish - I hope anyway - and the Law Society sure as hell wont gove any advice!!!!

What the blazes use is Fiche Bliain ag Fás (a great book) to a solicitor?

Surely the exam should be focussing on legal Irish, and the kind of colloqial Irish likely to come up in evidence?

quote:

Fiche Bliain

it is "fiche blian" in the title

I know - the whole thing is just another money making exercise for the law society!!!!!!

Actually it's a legislative requirement set out in the Solicitors Acts that trainee Solicitors demonstrate proficiency in Irish prior to being admitted onto the Roll. In practice, however, it only serves to make it níos deacair for foreigners and our Northern neighbours to be admitted as Solicitors.

Aontaím amach is amach le hAonghus. The Law Society should take the opportunity to introduce a more practical cúrsa as Gaeilge for would-be Solicitors at Blackhall Place so that Gaeilge would be become more of a lingua fraca amongst the legal fraternity.

Hopefully with the rise in popularity in Gaelscoileanna such professional institutions will eventually follow suit and begin to use Gaeilge more and more in its courses.

B'fheidir, b'fheidir ach ní moide...

Cad a gceapann sibh? Cad faoi usáid na Gaeilge le dochtúirí, cuantasóirí is a leithéidí? There seems to be very little interest amongst these professional bodies with regard to the use of our native tongue.

Yeah I know where the requirement comes from but the Law Society themselves think of it as a joke and quite literally dont take it too seriously - if people have difficulty in their oral examinations they actually turn off the tape recorder and tell them what to say before turning it back on - it that way, if they are not prepared to be positive and encouraging about it, to them it is just a nuisance for which they might as well gain an income of EUR140,000.00, I'm not joking!!!

A Róman, nach bhfuil na foirmeacha le -amar á n-úsáid i nGaeilg Chonamara? Is dóigh liom é...

Unregistered Guest I think you should be careful not to defame the Law Society! What evidence do you have that the examiners "turn off the tape recorder and tell them (examinees) what to say"?? And how would this be the responsibility of the Law Society as the examiners are generally not Solicitors?

I personally know of one native of the UK who has failed the exam 3 or 4 times due to his poor oral Irish. I'm sure it would have helped him if the examiner had turned off the tape recorder and told him what to say.

Maybe we should start lobbying the Law Society to change the format of the exam instead of complaining about it.

Maybe there could be a module taught encouraging the use of the Irish version of the Property Registration Authority (Land Registry) Forms, mar shampla.

Given that the language act, and related developments, has greatly increased the amount of legal documentation freely available in Irish it is surprising that the Law Society does not have a more meaningful exam; and not surprising that many are cynical about it.

And at the same time lawyers and barriseters who can do business in Irish seem to be getting good business...

(Dála an scéil, a Dhaithí Mhac, an Mac C****gh tú?. Nach bhfuil lamh agatsa sa scéal?)

quote:

nach bhfuil na foirmeacha le -amar á n-úsáid i nGaeilg Chonamara?

Nílid, deirtear ".... muid" i gConamara.

Agus arís, aontaím leat, a hAonghuis, ach ní thuigim in aon chor do cheist "an Mac C****gh tú?". Cad is brí le sin ldt? An masla í?!

Chun an dara cheist a fheagairt, is fíor gur dlíodóir mé, ach níl mórán tionchar agam ar cúrsaí an Chumann Dlí. Ach ar a laighid, caithfidh mé litir a sríobh chuige ag spreagadh air feabheas a chur ar na gcúrsaí i bPlás Blackhall ar thaobh na Gaeilge.

"Beidh said ag crith le heagla gan dabht", arsa tusa...

FRC

Fiche Blian:

The modern word bliain has a nom and gen pl. blianta, but the original pl was bliana and the gen pl blian.

Fiche: a noun that took the genitive plural: so fiche blian.

now...

as gen pl is often same as nom pl people mixed it up and reassigned it to the nom singular: fiche bliain.

Clearly the author of Fiche Blian ag Fás was aware that fiche should take the gn. pl.

Ní masla a bhí i gceist, ach iarracht a bheith discréideach.

Tá "Daithí Mac" mór le rá ann arbh dlíodóir é.

http://daithi1.ie/

Ah tuigim anois. Faraor, ní Daithi Mac Carthaigh mé, ach tar éis féachaint ar a suíomh, is solléir go bhfuil polasaithe maith ag an fear uasal sin. Thabharfainn mo vóta dó gan dabht mura raibh mé i mo chéimí Ollscoil Lumnigh.

Agus ag caint faoi maslaí, nach mór an masla é nach bhfuil vóta Seanaid ag céimí UL is DCU chomh maith?? Agus triúr Seanadóir ag Coláiste na Trionóide sa Teach Uachtar...

Nach ait an córas vótála atá ann maidir leis an Seanad?

quote:

Nach ait an córas vótála atá ann maidir leis an Seanad?

Is ait. Gliceas Dev arís.