Would be grateful I someone could translate the following sentence. Go raibh maith agaat

"He advise david"

Sorry should read

He advised David

1) Thug sé comhairle do David
or
2) Chomhairligh sé David

I prefer 1.
Daithí is the usual Irish for David, unless you mean the biblical figure, who is usually referred to as Daibhí

Go raibh maith agat.
I prefer 1 also

Would you mind helping me with one other sentence

Chuirfinn smacht ar na daltaí dana, mar sampla Ní bheadh siad abálta dul amach ag sugradh.

( I would discipline the bold children by not letting them out to plaY).

Is this correct?
Thanks

Not quite.

Ní bheadh cead acu/Bheadh cosc orthu ...
(Ní bheadh siad abálta = they would be not capable of going out to play)

dána

Aonghus,

she seems to be asking for a 'causal bridge' "Blah blah blah by virtue of/via X Y Z". How would you do such a predicated link here?

Ní thuigim do chuid Béarla a BhRN!

Ach is dócha go scríobhfainn
Blah blah blah de bharr X Y Z [neutral/positive]
nó
Blah blah blah de dheasca X Y Z [negative]



de dheasca (de thoradh, mar gheall ar (chaill sé a shláinte dá dheasca)).

barr [ainmfhocal firinscneach den chéad díochlaonadh]
gob, pointe (barr méire, barr pinn); an pointe is airde, mullach (barr crainn, barr cnoic); an pháirt uachtarach (barr tí, barr leathanaigh); uachtar (ar bharr talún, ar bharr an uisce); rud a fhásann ar bharr talún (barr coirce, barr prátaí); toradh (de bharr mo shaothair); breis (barr ar mhíle); bua (barr a bhreith ar dhuine); deireadh (tá mé i mbarr mo chéille acu).

toisc [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
cúis, cúrsa (tosca an tsaoil, an cháis); iarracht (tabhair isteach toisc uisce).


d'aon toisc (d'aon turas, d'aon ghnó).
de thoisc (mar gheall ar (toisc na cainte go léir; toisc go raibh deifir orm)).
toisc (mar gheall ar (toisc na cainte go léir; toisc go raibh deifir orm)).

mar gheall ar (de bharr (mar gheall ar an taisme); i dtaobh, toisc (cad mar gheall air? ná déan é mar gheall ormsa)).

níL a fhios agam cad tú a ra????

Go raibh maith agat

Ní bheadh cead acu/Bheadh cosc orthu

Would this work?

níl ná páistí in ann rith amach, de bharr an choisc a chuireann mé orthu

I wanted to be able to literally say "I would discipline the bold children by not letting them out to play" where the word 'by' implies their state of non-play is a bi-product of the speakers strict rules

quote:

Would this work?

Bheadh sin ceart.

D'fheadfá "de bhrí" a úsáid chomh maith.

Níl na paistí in ann dul amach ag spraoi, de bhrí gur choisc mé orthu é.

Ach bheadh

"Chuirfidh mé smacht ar na paistí dána tré/trí cosc a chuir orthu dul amach ag spraoi"

níos gaire don rud a bhí ar intinn agatsa.

Thanks for that, A Aonghus

Thanks to all for help
I'm also confused about this statement.

I drive to work every day. Is it

Gach lá thiomáin chun obair?

Thanks

Tiomáinim chun na hoibre gach lá

Thanks

What about these phrases or am I being too cheekY!? Please let me know

-Past times

Is maith liom riomhaireacht ( I like computers). Is this correct.

Is maith liom bheith ag obair le daoine go bhfuil fadhbanna speisialta acu. ( I like working with special children i.e special olympics)

Is maith liom ríomhaireacht ( I like computersing ).

Is maith liom ríomhairí (I like computers)

The second is OK, but awkward.
Focal gives "páiste faoi riachtanais speisialta" for a child with special needs, which I think is a better way of putting it!

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=special+needs

Is maith liom bheith ag obair le daoine go bhfuil riachtanais speisialta acu.

quote:

Is maith liom bheith ag obair le daoine go bhfuil fadhbanna speisialta acu. ( I like working with special children i.e special olympics

}I'd replace "go" with "a":

Maith liom bheith ag obair le páistí a bhfuil fadhbanna speisialta acu.

or you could use the verb "oibrigh":

Maith liom oibriú le páistí a bhfuil fadh....

There's also other ways to say it like "Taitníonn liom".

Thanks

I'm also trying to say
There are sixty members in our club.

( Tá seisca daoine i ball dón gclúb)

Tá seasca ball ag ár gcumann.

Hi Aonghus

Can you look at this please. Go raibh maith agat.


Ba mhaith liom bheith ag múineadh sna scoil faoin tuath, mar tá na ranganna níos beaga agus is féidir cairdeas a dhéanamh lena páistí. Tugann said seans do páisti aithne maith a chur ar an múinteoir. Tá meas mhór ar do mhúinteoir. Níl an tracht go dona faoin tuath!
Chuaigh mé go dtí an scoil faoin tuath. Bháin mé an-taitneamh as.

sna scoileanna (plural)
or
i scoil

níos lú

aithne mhaith

Tá meas mhór ar do mhúinteoir
awkward ("your teacher" applies to the reader!)
Tá meas mhór ar mhúinteoirí

trácht

faoin dtuath

Maith thú! The grammarians will likely pick out stuff I missed.

Go raibh maith agat. Tá mo ghaeilge ag dul i bhfeabhas!

Gaeilge sna bunscoileanna
Hi I'm trying to write a piece on the state of gaeilge in primary schools today, and what I would do If I was a primary school teacher. Can you look please and advice thanks. The fada might be wrong but i will correct these

Níl aon amhras ar bith orm ná go bhfuil níos mo daoine ag caint, ag scríobh, agus ag éisteach le gaeilge mar gheall ar an obair atá ar siúl sna bunscoileanna faoi láthair.
Dá mbeadh mé ag múineadh , d’eagróinn cluichí, imeachtaí agus comortas chun páistí a ghríosadh úsáid a baint as an gaeilge sna ghnáth hsaol. Is tré gaeilge a bheith na hímeachtaí ar siúl.
Tá a lán curamí ar an dtuismitheoirí agus múinteoirí chun gaeilge a spreagadh orthu.
Féach ar TG4. stáisiún iontach é dar liom. Tá reimse leathan clár ar fail ann agus freastalíonn sé ar gach éinne.
Tá clár sport agus cartúin ann do na páistí. Níl aon amhras ná go bhfuil borradh agus fas tagtha mar gheall ar TG4.

ag éisteach*T*
com*ó*rta*i*s
as an *n*Gaeilge
sa ghnáthshaol
trí ghaeilge a bheadh/bheidh
ar tuismitheoirí agus ar mhúinteoirí an ghaeilge a spreagadh
Stáisiún
réimse leathan de chláracha ar fáil
spóirt
fás
tagtha uirthi (uirthi refering to the language which is feminine)

Píosa deas, go leor des na botúin simplí le síneadh fada amháin in easnamh!

I'm trying to say the food, clothes and drink in Italy is cheaper than in Ireland. Can you help please?

Tá na eadaí , bia agus deoch níos saoirse( say- er-sha...How do you pronunce this word) in Iódail ná in Héireann.

Tá na héadaí, an bia agus an deoch san Iodáil níos saoire ná mar atá siad in Éirinn.

The clothes, the food and the drink are cheaper in Italy than they are in Ireland.

Ski,

It's too hard to say "na éadaí" - that's why the 'h' is there.

Saoirse is the irish word for Freedom. I would pronounce it seersha or maybe say-r-sha

Saor means "cheap"
Níos saoire = cheaper
Is saoire = cheapest.

Domhnall
Go raibh maith agat

Fáilte romhat a chara! :)

Hi again
Sorry to keep bothering you. I'm trying to write a piece of the life of my favourite soccer player ( Roy keane). Can you take a look at this please.


Rugadh sé i gcontae corcaigh agus is ann a thosaigh sé ag imirt sacair léis an foireann áitiúil. Nuair a bhí sé mbliana déag d’aois, chuaigh sé thar lear, agus thosaigh sé ag imirt leis an foireann. ( Nottaingham Forest). d'obair sé go dian agus cuplá mbliana ina dhiadidh sin bhí sé ag imirt i lár na páirce le foireann na Héireann agus lé Manchester United
Imreoir den scoth é ach Is duine conspóideach , crua é. Nuair a bhí sé ag imirt bhí sé i gcónaí ag thabhairt amach. agus de bhrí sin fuair sé cúpla cártaí dearg.
Is féidir a rá , is imreoir is fearr atá ag imirt lé foireann . I dhá míle bhlian is a dó ( 2002)Ní dheanfaimid dearmad go deo ar an argoint a tharla idir Mick McCarthy agus Roy. Sheol sé roy abhaile agus ní raibh sé ag imirt i comórtais an domhan. Anois tá sé ag obair mar bainisteoir. Bháin sé an-taitneamh as.
Bá bhreá liom bualadh léis uair éigin.

Rugadh sé

Nuair a bhí sé sé bliana déag d’aois,

d'oibrigh

cúpla bliain

ina dhiaidh

"Is féidir a rá , is imreoir is fearr atá ag imirt lé foireann"

Tá rud éigin in easnamh san abairt sin!

Is féidir a rá , is imreoir is fearr atá ag imirt lé foireann na Héireann.
Ceart go leor?

He is the best player...
Is eisean an t-imreoir is fearr...

It's possible to say that he is the best player...
Is féidir a rá <go> is eisean an t-imreoir is fearr...

But "go" combines with "is" to make "gur" (or "gurb" before a pronoun starting with a vowel):
Is féidir a rá gurb eisean an t-imreoir is fearr...


For the last part of the sentence there's something a bit more complicated going on:
an t-imreoir is fearr atá ag imirt...
the best player, who plays...
(i.e. he is the best player, and he also happens to play on that team)

but
an t-imreoir is fearr dá bhfuil ag imirt...
the best player who plays...
(i.e. of all who play on that team)

The comma makes all the difference in English - in Irish it's the grammatical structure.

Is féidir a rá gurb eisean an t-imreoir is fearr...

Thanks. How do you pronounce the word eisean?

Is féidir a rá gurb eisean an t-imreoir is fearr

Thanks. How do you pronounce eisean..?

esh-in

Can you help me pronounce the following words please

amaideach

bómánta

Fiáine

Ta súil agam go foghlaimeoidh (go foghlaimeoidh ...

ahmwahjahx

bwómwawntah

fyawinah

tá bron orm. Ní thuigim

[amʷədʲəx]

[bʷɔːmʷaːn̪ˠt̪ˠə]

[ɸʲaːn̥ǝ]

Correction: fiáine -> [ˈɸ´iɑːnɪ]. In Donegal: [ˈɸ´iæːɲɪ]

The glide was there as you have slender f then a back vowel. Do such glide event not occur any more? the dot under the n was simply to show it was alveolar

On the off chance that Skii28 doesn't know IPA any more than I do...

amaideach: AMMa-jakh
bómánta: BOE-mawnta
fiáine: FYAWN-ya
go foghlaimeoidh: go FYOLE-em-oy (the last syllable is really mostly "oh", with just a little bit of an "ee" at the end.)

Where are you living, or if you're in classes, what dialect does your Irish teacher have? I tend toward Connemara Irish myself, but I can try and tweak it in other directions if needed.

I gave a 'newspaper phonetix' example first, but it was not understood

Also, one does not 'know IPA' one understands the formulation of the sound system in Irish plus the spelling system. You then just transpose into IPA which is only a small set of symbols. If you use a rule based analysis, you must memorise where changes have occured, lest you give an out of data answer. If one does not understand IPA it is likely because one is only using English pronounciation. It is easy to work backwards from the arbitrary symbols. Of course, one day all sounds, grammar, and idiom will be English so it wont matter, yet the funny thing, is that the same people will insist on spelling it in the Caighdeán way, by which time it will be ridiculas

There are newspapers and there are newspapers, I guess. Frankly I'm not sure I could have got the correct pronunciation from your first post either - my best stab at pronouncing "fyawinah" would come out something like "FEEa-WINNa." Maybe that's just me though.

quote:

If one does not understand IPA it is likely because one is only using English pronounciation.

Or because the glyph "ɸʲ" doesn't occur in the alphabet of any language one knows, and one is therefore at a loss what sound it represents!

It may be "only a small set of symbols" but it's nevertheless unintelligible to someone who hasn't learned them.

(I'm also not sure I understand what "rule-based analysis" and "changes" you're talking about. What I'm doing is thinking of the word as I would pronounce it myself, and then trying to simplify that enough to squeeze it into English phonetics in a way that will minimize the additional explanations required. Is that anything like the process you're thinking of?)

In Robert MacNeil's and William Cran's Do you speak American? there are some examples of how differently Americans pronounce words. Here's one:

A woman from Boston pronounces the word that many Americans would pronounce as "black" (the color). Then the woman is asked to use the same word in a sentence, which is something like "all of the senior citizens on the block." In other words, the word she was saying was not "black," but it was "block." Her pronunciation of "block" would make most Americans think she was saying "black."

That's what I find most interesting about LPA (local phonetic alphabets). Many folks who visit here and other forums are looking for some quick help in pronouncing a word while avoiding the need for a degree in linguistics. So providing the pronunciation in an LPA format seems well intended. My interest lies in the fact that depending on which dialect of American, or British, or Hiberno-Irish, etc., they speak it's inevitable that they're going to from time to time, and maybe more often than not, mispronounce the word because their particular LPA differs from the pronunciation provider's LPA, like in the example I showed above of "black" versus "block."

I have a Spanish-English dictionary (the book's at work and the publisher's name eludes me) which is fairly modern and quite thorough. It looks like a dictionary that would be used by college students or high school students seriously studying Spanish. But what I find most interesting about this dictionary is that all of the English headwords contain IPA symbols, but none of the Spanish words contain any pronunciations, IPA nor non-IPA. So, I can only conclude that the dictionary is geared towards Spanish speaking people.

For the student of Irish, I think that some form of the IPA is required to do the pronunciation of the language any justice. A good start is the pronunciation guides found in Foclóir Scoile and Foclóir Póca. After a few hours invested in the introduction and guide to the simplified IPA symbols, a student can better grasp the sounds of the Irish language.


(Message edited by mac_léinn on May 31, 2007)

So is the LPA system international or what? If it's not, wouldn't it be much more useful just to write out the letters of pronunciation? Like Abigail's -

amaideach: AMMa-jakh
bómánta: BOE-mawnta
fiáine: FYAWN-ya

I would rather not spend several hours immersed in studying strange and unintelligible glyphs if there's some kind of LPA system for each language.

IPA is international. (That's why the I stands for!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

"LPA" Local pronunciation alphabet was coined by somebody here for the scheme of trying to give an english equivalent pronunciation for irish.

Abigail, I was not attacking you at all. I agree that my newspaper phonetix was bad by even those standards, but I know Americans don’t have pure vowels even, not to mention the more exotic hisses and clicks of the consonant set, so its a little difficult to do.

“Is that anything like the process you're thinking of?” I suppose, though been a humanities gradate I’m not as rigorous in technical jargon as yourself. Swings and roundabouts I suppose (we’re tight one place, loose another)

"like in the example I showed above of "black" versus "block.""

LPA is nonsense and shows a basic grasplessness of the scientific principles of reliability and validity. A few seconds of thought would show that if you have a foreign language that is different in sound to ones native language, yet one own language is composed of dialects, that describing Irish in terms of New Jersey phonics to someone from Albuquerque, all one is doing is explaining the sounds of one English dialect to another by draping them over the syllables of the foreign language. It’s a bit like, ones thermometer does not measure temperature, but rather changes inside the measuring part of the thermometer itself. The device is communicating with itself about itself, not about the external world.

The thing with sound is that it is different to grammar and idiom because it is simpler and can be easily through correspondence represented as separate little symbols. Error in methodology and application is easy to detect.

On the other hand, with grammar it is much more complex and codes do not work so well for quick expression (see Wikipedia for examples in native American languages for what I mean), so knowing where one went wrong is harder to do. All I was doing was drawing attention of the relative simplicity of one area of the language for learning, not hitting someone over the head with IPA.

Fadhb ar bith! 'Sé an t-adhmad a bhain mé ó do phost thuas ná "an té nach bhfuil fios an IPA aige, ní féidir go bhfuil sé ag foghlaim Gaeilge i gceart." Sin ar "thug mé eisceacht" dó. (Céard is Gaeilge cheart ar "took exception"?)

Ach is léir anois nach é sin a bhí i gceist agat. Mo leithscéal mar sin as an míthuiscint.

Indeed I could not equate your non IPA usage with inferior capacity as you Irish is superior to mine! As you are a good addition I didnt want to offend anyone, but I dont do a friendly writing style, and often end up apologising for my posts where thye were simply trying to explain a point.

I was trying to explain why I thought confusion was occuring (for structural reasons), but it looked like I was address you, which was not the case. The reality was is that I wrote it in one go and then did not seperate out the bit that was addressed to you from the general bit.

One could say "Tá an bainne doirte", I suppose

Céard is Gaeilge cheart ar "took exception"?)

Sin a ghlac mé col leis
Sin a chuir olc orm

Hi Living in Co. Clare

quote:

LPA is nonsense and shows a basic grasplessness of the scientific principles of reliability and validity. A few seconds of thought would show that if you have a foreign language that is different in sound to ones native language, yet one own language is composed of dialects, that describing Irish in terms of New Jersey phonics to someone from Albuquerque, all one is doing is explaining the sounds of one English dialect to another by draping them over the syllables of the foreign language.

Agreed. But there are those learners who are unwilling to invest the time and effort to learn the IPA and insist on using their own LPA.

quote:

"LPA" Local pronunciation alphabet was coined by somebody here for the scheme of trying to give an english equivalent pronunciation for irish.

I am that someone that coined the term LPA. I think it accurately describes the process of using one's local pronunciation of words in their native tongue to describe the pronunciation of a word in another language.

LPA is not going away. One solution is to compile a cross-referenced compendium of LPA with agreed upon words in each local English dialect to represent sounds. There must be hundreds of different English dialects so this compendium will be massive and will probably take thousands of person-hours to finish.

The alternative is to invest a few hours in learning the IPA, but as we know, some learners absolutely refuse to do so.

(Message edited by mac_léinn on June 01, 2007)

quote:

as we know, some learners absolutely refuse to do so.

How do we know that? Have we met one of these "diúltóirí daingne"?

I suspect that most learners who don't know IPA haven't in fact ruled it out, but are not pursuing it just yet (and may never be) for a variety of reasons. Maybe they see lack of correct fluent Irish, more than lack of IPA, as their biggest impediment to correctness and fluency.

I'm not knocking IPA in the least. It seems a useful system and would be indispensible if you were a linguist doing a dialect study. I'm not persuaded that it's vital for learning, though. Listening to and mimicking native speech seems to me like an adequate substitute (with the advantage that it helps with grammar and vocabulary as well.)

quote:

Hi Living in Co. Clare

Then you wouldn't want to pronounce "foghlaimeoidh" like I do! (Also, I missed the fact that "go" eclipses, so it should be "go bhfoghlaimeoidh" anyway. Sorry about that!)

amaideach: AMMa-dakh
bómánta: BOE-mawnta
fiáine: FYAWN-ya
go bhfoghlaimeoidh: go VOLE-em-yoh-ig

Wait and see what Aonghus says about "go bhfoghlaimeoidh" though. Of all the dialects Munster is what I'm least familiar with.

quote:

Wait and see what Aonghus says about "go bhfoghlaimeoidh" though.

1) Ní deir Aonghus faic riamh faoi foghraíocht!
2) Ní Muimhneach mé! (Jeaicín mé)
3) Ním botúin nuair a dhéanaim smaoineamh ar ghramadach!

Mar sin, níl faic le rá agam.

Róman Ridire na Gaoluinne.

Abigail,

Do yourself a favor and search the archives. I think you'll get a clear answer to your question about "diúltóirí daingne"

quote:

Listening to and mimicking native speech seems to me like an adequate substitute (with the advantage that it helps with grammar and vocabulary as well.)

Yes, being able to hear the sound of the particular words is the ideal way to learn the correct pronunciation.

This thread is a perfect example of the countless number of discussions where we're having a detailed discussion of the pronunciation of some words and the "listening to and mimicking native speech" approach doesn't apply. Instead, a written representation, either LPA or IPA is employed, as all of us participating in this thread are doing.

Maidir le foghlaimeoidh, caithfear an cheist seo a chur:

Is it followed by a pronoun? That would have a notable impact on the pronunciation in Munster, at least among native or "traditional" speakers.

quote:

Is it followed by a pronoun? That would have a notable impact on the pronunciation in Munster, at least among native or "traditional" speakers.

You may call it "traditional", but these things are entirely subconscious to the native speaker. To draw a comparison that people here can relate to, let's take the english word "you"; I pronounce "you" differently depending on the context, e.g. passive or emphasised... but also I pronounce it differently depending on the sound that came before it: If there's a "DeNTaL" before it, then I'll say it as "cha", as in the song by Tupac entitled "I ain't mad at cha". If you were a learner of English, ya might think this to be slightly complex, but to a native speaker or a learner who has progressed, it just slips off the tongue.

quote:

1) Ní deir Aonghus faic riamh faoi foghraíocht!
2) Ní Muimhneach mé! (Jeaicín mé)
3) Ním botúin nuair a dhéanaim smaoineamh ar ghramadach!

Mar sin, níl faic le rá agam.

Tá 'sáraí' orm! Ní raibh a fhios agam go raibh an pólasaí sin agat. Nach tusa is fearrde, a leithéid seo d'imreas a sheachaint!

Ná bíodh. Is fada ó d'fhógair mé é bheith agam.

The glide was there as you have slender f then a back vowel. Do such glide event not occur any more? the dot under the n was simply to show it was alveolar

"ia" is always pronounced [iə]: two syllables.

(Message edited by Lughaidh on June 03, 2007)

Lughaidh,
why did 'fiá' become 'fia'? Is it becasue the word is spelt old fashionedly? I know ia is nearly always the way transcribed above, but why is it a diphthong here and not a single vowel if written á.