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Ceolmhar
Member
Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 173
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 09:40 am: |   
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http://www.unison.ie/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1822489&issue_id=15574 "THE country's growing Polish community will soon be able to speak to local gardaí in their native tongue. Members of the force around the country have undertaken "basic Polish" language classes, according to the Garda Press Office." I've no problem with this, but maybe they could brush up on their Irish while their at it. I try to speak Irish to the gardaí as often as possible. At a checkpoint for instance, a lot of them just give me a dirty look as though I'm being cheeky - it puts me off using it with them altogether.
Gaeilge abú
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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:18 am: |
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I'd eat the arse of my hat if they can get their heads around the more than half dozen cases in the tongue |
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Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo
Post Number: 232
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 06:06 pm: |
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ha ha |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 166
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 01:55 am: |
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That's sure to be an emotional issue if it's true.
The politics and dynamics of the EU are far beyond my ken, so I don't know whether there may be compelling reasons to allow people to reside permanently in your country without having to speak an official language.
Here in the United States, this situation has become such a disaster that we now offer public services to people in a host of lanauges and, arguably, many non-English speakers have an easier time availing themselves of those services than our own citizens!
Here's one amusing case in point that I recently experienced first hand. I had to apply for unemployment benefits because I'm between gigs, and I had a question. Trying to get hold of a living, breathing human being at that agency is well nigh impossible, as they have a "phone tree" of pre-recorded answers... for every conceivable question *except* the one I needed answered. Finally I chose a selection for people who don't speak English, Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian, Spanish or a few others. When the guy heard me, he said he couldn't help because I spoke English and he was there to serve those who couldn't speak any of the above languages.
I told him I had one measly question to ask and that I did indeed speak a couple languages besides those offered on the damn phone tree. No help for me, though.
What would be hilarious would be for me to get enough Irish under my belt to demand service here in the US as Gaeilge! |
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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 04:23 am: |
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"ha ha"
Ya, anyone not in the solid "Shur izint it greit fur de lamwadj" camp is a target. Wexford is a dump too
"reasons to allow people to reside permanently in your country without having to speak an official language. "
Most Irish people speak only 1 official language. Internationally, Ireland is in Europe seen as a primary destination for learning English, so your implication is untenable. In fact, to this day, many (most?) Europeans think the Queen is the head of the irish state. TO remove foreigners from Ireland for not speaking i nGaeilg would bring derision down on the country, especially after 6 weeks when the said foreigners had learnt it better than the locals |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 170
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 05:01 am: |
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Wow. You really need to reread what I posted, BRN.
I made no "implications" and I went *way* out of my way to clarify that the Irish state of affairs is not my stock in trade.
How you get from there, to stating the I think you should "remove foreigners from Ireland for not speaking i nGaeilg," is utterly beyond me. That was never my intended message and I took pains to make it clear.
For what it's worth, I can readily accept that Ireland's foreigners may have more Irish than the natives thanks to their six-week intensive course. We experience a similar phenomenon here in the US regarding knowledge of American history: the typical US high-school grad knows nowhere near what the immigré knows, on that subject, simply because the immigré is *forced* to know it. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5259
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 05:08 am: |
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The idea is not that Poles will only have to deal with the police in Polish.
The idea is to have the police aware that other cultures exist, and that having some grasp of the client's (for want of a better word that covers all the interactions between police and public) language will make doing the job easier and more effective.
That principal applies to all sectors, but the consequences of getting the job wrong are more serious for the police. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 11:49 am: |
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quote:I'd eat the arse of my hat if they can get their heads around the more than half dozen cases in the tongue There's a difference between being able to communicate intelligibly in a language and being able to communicate eloquently in it. As long as you know one form of a word you're flying. For instance, if someone says to me "I know conversation English" instead of "conversation al English", or "ag lorg an buachaill" instead of "an bhuachalla", then I'll still now full well what they're saying. Sure even in English the "adverb" case seems to be falling away in a few dialects... I mean in Dublin you'll hear "That was real good" or "He was moving dead quick" instead of "really good" or "dead quickly". Also the genitive/adjectival form of nouns is falling away, e.g. "medicine cabinet" instead of "medicinal cabinet".
-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Mura mbíonn téarma Gaeilge agaibh ar rud éigin, bígí cruthaitheach! Ná téigí i muinín focail Bhéarla a úsáid, údar truaillithe é sin dod chuid cainte.
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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 1656
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 12:14 pm: |
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’S é ’n rud atá greannmhar sa scéal gur féidir "póilíní" a thabhairt ar na gardaí, agus go bhfuil an focal sin cosúil le "Polainn" srl.
Na póilíní a’ foghlaim Polainnise, srl...
Learn Irish pronunciation here: www.phouka.com/gaelic/sounds/sounds.htm
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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 06:38 pm: |
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"Wow. You really need to reread what I posted, BRN. "
Did I sound like I was ranting? I know the remark about Wexford in response to the sarcastic comment misses the target (and good repartee needs more than an ounce of truth to dig in), but it was not in anger. For me, I had an image of the farce it might decend into. |
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Riona
Member
Username: Riona
Post Number: 1140
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:58 pm: |
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As Ceolmhar pointed out, there is nothing wrong with this and it will be nice, but I along with he, wish that they might take this as an oppertunity to also brush up on their Gaeilge.
Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Diarmo
Member
Username: Diarmo
Post Number: 233
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 05:17 pm: |
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BRN who doesnt have the decency to register..I'm sure Sligo is beautiful too! |
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Riona
Member
Username: Riona
Post Number: 1142
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 07:35 pm: |
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Some people just don't register and I don't mind as long as I know who they are due to a name they use each time. And I think Conamara is better. :)
Beir bua agus beannacht |
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Domhnall
Member
Username: Domhnall
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 11:00 am: |
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Is it me or are polish people getting these services, signs etc without really doing much.
I'm the first to say that they should have their signs etc but we have our offical status, it's our NATIONAL langauge and all the rest but they just seem to ignore us..
A people without a language of its own is only half a nation.A nation should guard its language more than its territories, 'tis a surer barrier and a more important frontier than mountain or river
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BRN (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From:
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 11:19 am: |
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I did register before, but then the account was recinded! Maybe it was because I chose a name that had no chance of been taken, but sounded crazy! |
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Mac_léinn
Member
Username: Mac_léinn
Post Number: 517
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 11:26 am: |
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Isn't it true that the Gardaí has already put into place plans to downgrade or completely eliminate Irish as a requirement for the Gardaí? As more folks from the European Union enter Ireland, the Gardaí will go out of their way to accomodate the immigrants' native languages.
It will be the height of absurdity when the only language not supported or understood by the Gardaí is Irish!
Múineann gá seift
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Ceolmhar
Member
Username: Ceolmhar
Post Number: 175
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 11:30 am: |
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The only Gardaí that will have any success in learning the basics of another language are those that are already bilingual in Irish and English. Good luck to the rest of them.
Gaeilge abú
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5283
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:09 pm: |
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quote:Isn't it true that the Gardaí has already put into place plans to downgrade or completely eliminate Irish as a requirement for the Gardaí? No. Emphatically not. All gardaí receive training in Irish as part of their training, and are required to be proficient in it on graduation from Garda Training college. What has been changed is the entry requirements to that college - a qualification in Irish or English is required, before it was both. |
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Do_chinniúint
Member
Username: Do_chinniúint
Post Number: 126
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 10:34 pm: |
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This is a very funny thread to me because I just had very interesting converstaion with a friend of mine from Cork on this very subject.
Now she is a bit of a xenophobe to begin with...but she was complaining about the Polish in her area and the "problems" they "seem" to be causing...
It was amusing to hear her complaints because they sound like the complaints I hear all the time here in the US from people about our growing Hispanic communities...
I think the issue isn't that the Gardaí might be learning Polish, that's irrelavant in my opionion. I think that the issue seems to be that there is a problem with communication and the Irish government's solution is to accommodate a minority that isn't conforming to their host nation.
Now I know that probably isn't the best way to phrase that because it leaves a lot of room for debate here...but this seems to be the "fairness" approach being taken by most "modern" governments these days. Better to look good and avoid any troubles by accommodating a minority than be the bad guy and make them change...
My personal belief on this subject is that people have the right to speak any language they want, and no one has the right to try to force another language on a person. However, cases like this are a little different because in this case we are dealing with a group of people who for whatever reason have made the choice to leave their country and settle in another. I believe that it is the immigrant's responsibility to adjust to the host nation first out of homage for being allowed to enter the nation in the first place. |
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 171
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 05:34 am: |
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"What has been changed is the entry requirements to that college - a qualification in Irish or English is required, before it was both."
Aonghus, this does surprise me.
The "first, official language" of Ireland is now optonal for its police force? |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5287
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:04 am: |
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DAMMIT would you read what I wrote! It is emphatically not optional But someone whose secondary education was outside the state will not have had the option to get academic qualifications in Irish in second level education. Therefore that is not a prerequisite to enter training, but it is a prerequsite to qualify as a Garda. http://www.garda.ie/angarda/faq.html#R2 http://www.garda.ie/angarda/col/student.html quote:(1) The phase I programme consists of studies in the following subjects that area categorised as mandatory (m) and elective (e) (a) Contextual Policing Studies (m) (b) Garda Practices and Procedures Studies (m) (c) Legal Studies (m) (d) Management and Organisational Studies (m) (e) Social and Psychological Studies (m) (f) Physical Education, Health & Safety Studies (m) (g) Irish Studies (m) (h) European Language Studies (m) - German (e) - French (e) |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5288
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:05 am: |
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quote:7) Irish Studies
It is important for Gardaí to have a working knowledge of the Irish language as they may be required to use it in the course of their duties. Therefore, the Irish course provides students with a more positive attitude towards the use of the language as well as the linguistic skills necessary to carry out such duties through the medium of Irish. The general use of the language as well as Irish traditions and culture are also emphasised.
Irish Studies - Areas Covered
Practical use of the Irish language in conversation such as
(a) Getting to know people (b) Pastimes (c) Appointments and invitations (d) Giving and seeking advice or complaints (e) Checkpoints (f) Inspection of Licensed Premises (g) Drunk driving (h) Dealing with prisoners (i) Garda documentation (j) Giving evidence in court
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Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Member
Username: Domhnall_Ó_h_aireachtaigh
Post Number: 172
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:09 am: |
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A Aonghus, I am terribly sorry. It wasn't clear to me. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5290
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:11 am: |
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Ná bí buartha. Táim teasaí inniu, sin an méid!
(Message edited by aonghus on May 10, 2007) |
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Mise_fhéin
Member
Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 06:26 am: |
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"I think that the issue seems to be that there is a problem with communication and the Irish government's solution is to accommodate a minority that isn't conforming to their host nation."
Ní raibh aon chinneadh déanta ag an rialtas ar an gceist seo, rinne an Garda Síochána a gcinneadh fhéin an Pholainnis a fhoghlaim.
Tuigeann na Gardaí an gá leis an teanga chun a ndualgais sa bpobal a chomhlíonadh i gceart, óir níl aon amhras go bhfuil an Pholainnis an dara teanga is coitianta sa tír anois. |
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Do_chinniúint
Member
Username: Do_chinniúint
Post Number: 127
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 09:29 pm: |
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Well in fairness to the Polish, the Hispanic communities, and any other minority group trying to make their way in the world...they should be given time to settle in and adjust. If Ireland is willing to allow them in, then Ireland should be willing to accept the culture clashes.
However, the fact that they have caught the attention of the Gardaí, to the point where the Gardaí might need to know or want to know survival Polish, could suggest that those who are trying to make an honest attempt at life are being overshadowed by those who aren't. |
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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine
Post Number: 1066
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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or that they are easy marks for the unscrupulous and have to reach out for help from the gardaí in increasing numbers.
or, like the old Chinese restaurants...a little from column A, and a little from column B |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5299
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 06:07 am: |
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quote:a little from column A, and a little from column B Although it seems to me that they should be learning Russian, Lithuanian and Latvian, as it is the people from the Baltic States who seem to be getting the worst of it. |
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Mise_fhéin
Member
Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 06:20 am: |
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"They should be learning Russian, Lithuanian and Latvian"
Bhuel, níl an oiread sin daoine ó na tíortha siúd sa tír i gcomparáid lena Polannaigh.
Go hairid in iarthar na tíre. Is Polannaigh iad formhór acub. |
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 5301
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 09:05 am: |
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Níl. Ach ina measc siúd a dúnmhairíodh le ronnt bliainta, tá siad fairsing. Agus an bhfuil tú cinnte go n-aithníonn tú Polannach thar Slavaigh eile? http://seanchainteoir.blogspot.com/2007/02/spraoi-le-staitistic-inimirce.html |
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Mise_fhéin
Member
Username: Mise_fhéin
Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 09:16 am: |
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"Agus an bhfuil tú cinnte go n-aithníonn tú Polannach thar Slavaigh eile?"
Níl. Ach is léir go bhfuil a fhios ag na Gardaí i dTír Chonaill cé hiad |
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