http://roinntsmaointe.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-fuath-liom-paddies-agus-paddys-day .html

Cad a cheapann sibh?

Bíonn a lán Plastic Paddies i mo cheantar féin, agus beidh siad ag ól beoir uaine, ag cur éadaigh Leipreacháin orthu, ag ithe mairteoil shaillte (le cabáiste), agus ag rá "begorrah", srl.

Fanfaidh mé sa bhaile ar an lá sin. Cuireann daoine mar sin aiféaltas agus anbhá orm.

Nuair a bhí mé óg, bhínn sa teach tábhairne chuile deireadh seachtaine in éindí le mo chuid cairde. Bhíodh muid ann ar Oíche Chinn Bliana fresin, ar ndóigh, ach bhíodh a lán daoine eile ann chomh maith, daoine nach raibh le feiceáil ann de ghnáth. Thug muid "amateurs night" ar an oíche sin. Feictear dom go bhfuil Paddy's Day cosúil leis sin!

Measaim go mbeadh sé níos oiriúnaigh má bheadh Paddy's Day ar 1 Aibreán --
bíonn a lán amadán ann i gcónaí.

Céard a chiallaíonn Lá 'le Pádraig? Más duine de na seanfhondúirí thú, is spriocdháta tábhachtach é. Ní mór duit do chuid prátaí a chur faoin lá sin! Is minic a lean mé an nós sin. Ach d'éirigh mé as na prátaí cúpla bliain ó shin.

Is breá liomsa Paddy's Day. Tá súil agam nach fuath leat na hÉireannaigh nuair a deireann tú 'Is fuath liom Paddies.' Is Éireannach mise. Ach má tá tú ag caint faoin bhfocal 'Paddies,' aontaím leat; is fuath liom an focal sin.
Beidh mórshiúl acu i Muileann gCearr aríst, http://www.mullingarparade.ie/
buíochas le Dia, agus chuala mé go mbeidh sé thar a bheith spéisiúil i mbliana. Beidh grúpaí ó go leor tíortha eile ann agus iad gléasta suas ina éadaí traidisiúnta. Ina measc, beidh grúpa de Kurds ann, atá díreach tar éis teacht go dtí an Muileann gCearr agus atá ag socrú síos ann ansin. Is iontach an áis an mórshiúl seo dóibh agus do mhuintear na háite comhrá a spreagadh agus aithne a chur ar a chéile agus gach duine ag déanamh spraoi agus ag baint taitneamh as an bhféile. Freisin, ba chóir go mbeadh roinnt mhaith Gaeilge ann i mbliana agus dhá scoileanna lán-Ghaelacha againn anois.
Feictear dom go bhfuil i bhfad níos mó féilte ag daoine i dtíortha eile ná mar a bhí againn agus muid ag fás suas. Is minic nach raibh tada ar siúl againne, fiú ar Lá ‘Fhéile Pádraig. Nuair a bhí mé sa Seapáin, bhí go leor féilte ann agus bhíodh ard-áthas orm agus ar na páistí agus muid ag dul amach ag breathnú ar an tine ealaíne, ag éisteacht leis an gceol, ag ithe bia speisíalta don bhféasta agus ag féachaint ar na daoine gléasta suas ag comóradh a gcultúr le bród. Cuireann siad fáilte roimh Lá 'Fhéile Pádraig ansin freisin: http://www.inj.or.jp/stpatrick_e.html Chailleamar alán féilte in Éirinn agus is mór an trua é. Seo seans amháin dul amach agus craic a bheith againn. Saol amach an pagánach ionat, ar a laghad uair amháin sa bhliain, a deirim ☺

Tá súil agam nach fuath leat na hÉireannaigh nuair a deireann tú 'Is fuath liom Paddies.'

Ní dúirt mé é sin ar bith; is ón leathanach seo é:
http://roinntsmaointe.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-fuath-liom-paddies-agus-paddys-day .html

(Is Éireannach an duine sin, dála an scéil.)

Chailleamar alán féilte in Éirinn agus is mór an trua é.

Aontaím leatsa.

quote:

Chailleamar a lán féilte in Éirinn

Na pátrúin atá ceangailte le toibreacha beannaithe, mar shampla?

Sea Dennis agus ceart agat a Chionaoidh; níor léigh mé ach an tideal, gabh mo leithscéal. Ooops mór ansin. Caithfidh mé a admháil go dtagaim anseo go minic nuair ba chóir dom bheith ag staidéar. Bím ag cur mo chuid oibre ar an méar fhada. Is tá an naisc a thug tú dúinn spéisiúil a Chionaoidh ach ar ais liom ag staidear arís mar tá scrúdú agam inniu.

Maidir le "Na pátrúin atá ceangailte le toibreacha beannaithe, mar shampla?": Bhí mé ag smaoineamh ar Bealtaine agus Lughnasa 7 araile ach ceart agat ansin freisin.

quote:

Bhí mé ag smaoineamh ar Bealtaine agus Lughnasa...

Oh, right, the great quarter days. Is suimiúil an rud é -- cúis iontais agus bróid dáiríre (domsa, ar aon nós) -- go bhfuil ceann acu ina fhéile idirnáisiúnta anois. Samhain atá mé a rá, ar ndóigh. Agus feictear dom go dtreisíonn Halloween agus los Días de los Muertos a chéile abhus anseo i Meiriceá. Do bharúil?

Is fearr liomsa La Fheile Padraig. It is one of my favorite days of the year and I don't care what other people think of that. I do try to avoid cheapy chinsy things that are inauthentic. But I celebrate gladly and I look forward to it all year. If someone wants to call me names or what have you they can, I'll still enjoy the day.

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree completely with that blog. I have come to despise St. Patrick's day and all the cheap, tacky, 'plastic-paddy' crap that goes along with it. There is a great reluctance among some to criticise it in any way for fear that they are belittling or rejecting 'Irishness' but there is nothing Irish about it. We have a great heritage and history which we should take great pride in displaying to the world on our national day but instead what do the ignorant imbeciles think best represents our culture? - Lime green, leprechauns, drink, people dressed as Scotsmen playing the highland bagpipes, Irish dancers who are about as traditional as a 'Made in China' plastic shillelagh. In Dublin their inspiration seems to be more South American carnivals than anything to do with Ireland.
Is it any wonder that we are so disrespected as a people around the world when this is the sole impression people have of the Irish?
It's because I care for and take pride in my country and culture that I have these views and I'm sure it's the same for others who think similarly.


Here's my pathetic attempt to express this in Irish:

Aontuighim go léir leis an mblag soin. Fé láthair is gráin liom Lá Fhéile Pádraig agus an cac suarach, táir, 'plastic-paddy' ar fad a bhfuil baint aige leis.
Tá an-leisce ar daoine éigin é a lochtughadh ar eagla go bhfuilid ag déanamh a bheag de nó ag diúltughadh Éireannachais ach níl sé Éireannach ar chor ar bith.
Tá stair agus oidhreacht mhór againn agus ba cheart dúinn an-mhórtas a bheith againn á dtaispeáint don domhan ar ár lá náisiúnta ach, ina ionad soin, cad a shíleann na hamadáin ainbhfiosacha a bhfuil is fearr a sheasann d'ár gcultúr? - uaine teile, lúchorpáin, deoch, daoine gléasta mar Albanaigh ag seinnt na píobaí gairbhchríochacha, rinnceoirí Éireannacha atá chomh hÉireannach le 'SiolÉalach' plaisteach dénta sa tSín.
Is mó a spreag carnabhail Mheiriceánacha theas iad i nÁth Cliath ná rud ar bith a bhfuil baint aige le hÉirinn.
An iongantas an méid dímheas atá ag daoine timpeall an domhain orainn agus é seo an tuairim amháin atá acu fé na hÉireannaigh?
Tá cion agam ar, agus táim bródamhail as mo thír agus mo chultúr agus is dá bharr soin atá na tuairimí seo agam agus táim cinnte gurb ionann é dóibh a bhfuil tuairimí cosmhala acu.

I pretty much agree with you James. When I was in Dublin on St. Patrick's Day three years ago, I was disappointed at the carnivale "spectacle" it was--I thought of all places, Ireland would be a good place to spend the day. It actually reminded me of the Halloween parade I had seen a few years earlier in Belfast, but without the reverence for the day I had seen in Belfast. It was the second day of my vacation in Ireland--I flew into Dublin since it was right before the holiday, but I always spend my time in the West. When I am in Galway next year, I hope to find a better place to spend the evening--maybe drive down to Spiddal to spend the night at Hughes listening to the locals play.

sorry, that was my post but I didn't notice that I wasn't logged in.

BethRua

I do agree that there is too much inauthentic rubbish tossed around on that day. Bethrua, that is quite sad the story you tell. One would think that in Ireland people would know better but I suppose such foolishness spreads all over. Even though celebration methods are flawed I still love St. Patrick's Day and think that instead of hating the day people can encourage and support authentic ways of celebrating to try and do our little part to counteract silliness of the chinsy variety. As for bagpipes, I know that they really are not having anything to do with Ireland but I still like hearing them and that is one of the only times in the year when I can.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Scríobh James: people dressed as Scotsmen playing the highland bagpipes,

Scríobh Ríona: As for bagpipes, I know that they really are not having anything to do with Ireland...

I have attended a number of Irish music festivals and almost always, there is a Irish bagpipe competition, with many outstanding players performing. Some people claim that the Scottish Bagpipe originated in Ireland. I'm no expert on the history of the bagpipe, or if the Irish had them first (I don't really care) but here's a site with some more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Irish_Warpipes

(Normal disclaimer: This above referenced site may not be peer-reviewed - read at your own risk.)

On another note (pun intended) is breá liom píobaí uilleann (elbow), which are smaller versions that are played usually while sitting down. In my opinion, they have quite a melodious sound and really help round out an Irish-music band.

Mac Léinn Píob Mála

(Message edited by mac_léinn on March 10, 2007)

Riona,

I don't despise the day, but America (mostly Irish immigrants back in the day) commercialized the holiday a long, long time ago. Once Americans decided that was the way to celebrate, it bled into other countries, including parts of Ireland (and I can understand why Dublin has developed the commercial aspect--tourism is a big industry and most people come to the country wanting the stereotypical, plastic-green-bowler-wearing day of drunken mayhem). It is just disappointing to have yet another holiday commercialized (I have Irish friends who remember St. Patrick's Day being a day to go to church and spend time with family--and that was not that long ago).

If you are in America, there tends to be Irish-centered specials on the History Channel and History International Channel this month. I remember one show that explained how the day became commercialized in America (it shows the first parade then extends to the chaos that happens today).

I hope you enjoy the holiday, no matter how you choose to celebrate it.

I've been around for a long long time and I always heard complaints that St.Patrick's Day was getting too comercial (along with Christmas). How far back do we have to go to find the 'authentic' festival?

Maybe it's just becoming more American as all other aspects of our lifestyle are.

I've been around for a long long time and I always heard complaints that St.Patrick's Day was getting too comercial (along with Christmas). How far back do we have to go to find the 'authentic' festival?

In Ireland? Twenty years ago there was none of this nonsense. You had mass, perhaps a nice dinner and a pint at the local afterward.

In America? What holiday has America not turned on its head or turned into a sad parody of what it ought to be?

Ach céard faoin mbanna ceoil, a Chionnaoidh, san úrscéal An Druma Mór le Seosamh Mac Grianna? Sa bhliain 1969 a foilsíodh é, ach tá an scéal suite sa chéad leath den chéad sin. Seo sliocht as an mblurb ar an gclúdach:

"Is é is ábhar don úrscéal seo achrann a tharla faoi bhanna ceoil -- an Druma Mór -- i mbaile cladaigh i Rosa Thír Chonaill go luath sa chéad seo. Ba le pobal daoine, i gcomhar le chéile, na gléasraí ceoil, agus roghnaítí na seinnteoirí ar a gcumas gach Féile Pádraig le clú an bhaile a sheasamh sa mhórshiúl bliantúil."

B'fhéidir go bhfuair na S.A. a lán eismimirceach ó Thír Chonaill.

Bhíomar i mbanna ceoil agus muid óg (mé fhéin is m'fhear céile, is beagnach gach duine i Muileann Cearr) is chuamar go Baile Atha Cliath agus Gailleamh agus Luimneach ag ceiliúradh Lá Fhéile Pádraig. Nuair a bhíomar i mBaile Atha Cliath, bhuaileamar le daoine ó bhannaí ceoil eile. Bhí siad uilig cairdiúil seachas na buachaillí ón Artane Boys Band. Is nuair a bhí siad ag seinm, ní fhacamar aon spraoi ann. Bhí an-smacht go deo le feiceáil sa bhanna cheoil sin. Cheapamar go raibh sé aisteach ag an am ach bhíomar óg agus níor thuigeamar. Blianta ina dhiaidh sin tháinig an scéal is an scannal go léir amach agus bhí mé tinn ag smaoineamh siar agus ag féachaint ar a aghaidheanna. Na Bráithre "Críostaí" a bhí i gceannas orthu.
Bhíodh mhórshiúl bliantúil ann ceart go leor sna bailte móra. Ach i gcuid de na bailte beaga ní raibh siad ann chuile bhliain is de gnáth ní bhíodh ann ach an banna ceoil is tarracóir nó dhó is b'fhéidir páistí ón scoil agus ar ndóigh an sagart paróiste ar an árdán.
Is breá liom an mórshiúl nuair atá go leor daoine páirteach ann agus comhaltas ceoltóirí ann agus daoine ag damhsa ag an gcrosbóthar ach tá mé ag brionglóidí aríst.

quote:

As for bagpipes, I know that they really are not having anything to do with Ireland but I still like hearing them and that is one of the only times in the year when I can.

A slight misunderstanding here. I'm not saying the bagpipes aren't Irish. As Mac Léinn said it's thought they spread to Scotland from Ireland. This is the problem, people have gotten the impression that the bagpipes are solely Scottish because of the practise of pipers dressing in Highland costume and using the Scottish variety of pipes to the exclusion of our own kind, the Irish warpipes. Admittedly there's no great difference between the two, it's thought the third drone on Scottish pipes appeared only in the last couple of centuries. Still, perhaps some of you have seen illustrations of the Irish pipes on old woodcuts showing Irish soldiers etc and with their elongated, splayed-ended drones and chanter, I think they look magnificent.
Also, we must be the only nation in Europe who not only don't ever use any variety of traditional costume, but don't even seem to have an idea of what it should be.

Scotland, Ireland, Galicia, Italy, Bulgaria and many, many more places have their bagpipes. Scroll down this site for 30 types of pipes and click on the pictures of them for more info.http://www.hotpipes.com/main.html

There are references to bladder instruments, which bagpipes are an evolved form of, as far back as ancient Egypt...

As an American who loves the Irish language, history, and culture...I have also developed a love/hate relationship with St. Patrick's Day. I am really bothered by the fact that the day has gone from as "St. Patrick's Day" to "St. Paddy's Day" to just "Paddy's Day." However, I am glad to see that there is a day out there for the Irish.

But like the people above said, it is the fact that we are taking an Irish themed holiday and are trying to make it something else. For instance, I went to the local WALMART, or as I like to call it..."Satan's Crib" where they have all kinds of plastic party favors for the holiday....I was rather upset to see a sign that read "Get Your Paddy's Day Beads." Wearing beads is nothing new for holidays across the world, however, they are really becoming popular here in the States because of Mardi Gras and the tradition of exposing your body for beads.

I go to the local holiday events in Omaha on a regular basis and I have noticed that every holiday event they have is becoming more and more the same, they section off parts of the city, set up alcohol stands, and people are packed in where they drink as many over priced drinks as they can before they have to be at work in the morning, listen to the bands play, and try to get as many beads as they can by exposing themselves as if it was some kind of contest. It seems the only thing that changes at these things are the colors.

I just can't see how a bunch of drunks exposing themselves for little plastic beads honors any event they claim to be celebrating.

Most Americans who go to great lengths to enjoy this day can't tell you what animal was "driven out of Ireland." Most Americans can't tell you what century St. Patrick lived. And sadly...there are a lot of Americans out there that really couldn't tell you where Ireland is on the map. But for some reason, most American's can tell you when "Paddy's Day" is.

Now in America's defense...I celebrated St. Patrick's Day in Cork last year and it really wasn't that different. Rather sad if you ask me...;0(

quote Cionnaith:

"In Ireland? Twenty years ago there was none of this nonsense. You had mass, perhaps a nice dinner and a pint at the local afterward."

Where do you get your information? I can remember back to the fifties. There were always St. Patrick's Day parades with floats, bands, etc. Perhaps not as elaborate as the parades nowadays but there was less money around.

Although it was addressed to Cionaodh, I can tell you that the Irish friends I was talking about are mainly in the West (Galway and Connemara, but also into the Midlands). I do have a friend (late 30s) who grew up in Dublin and still remembered when the day wasn't such a spectacle. I also have relatives who went to Ireland in the late '80s and didn't see the commercial "tourist trap" the day is today.

I think that is what Cionaodh was trying to say...that while it was celebrated, it was never the big "party" that it has become today.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with having a good time. But the "party" that it has become doesn't really honor the Irish. In fact, I feel it reduces the Irish down to the stereotypes. Beer, leprechauns, clovers, pots o'gold...having been to Ireland, I can honestly say I only saw the beer ;0)

I already knew about the "bagpipe issue, having known about Uileann pipes for a very long time and having just learned of other types in an archived thread just last week. I just wrote the message quickly and sent it, then kicked myself for not being precise because I knew I'd be in a bit of trouble for not being specific and mentioning "Scottish" or "highland" before the name of the instrument.

A Dho chinniuint a chara,
Snakes were driven out of Ireland by St. Patrick who lived in the 400s or the 5th century if you prefer. Sure and this American isn't as ignorant as the many others who haven't a clue.

I don't think Saint Patrick would be very pleased if he saw how some people turn his day into the things you mentioned such as drunken exposure. It is embarrasing that people are so disrespectful and crude.

I do know that my excitement is mounting and that I look forward to celebrating in the way that I feel is honorable and enjoyable.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Where do you get your information? I can remember back to the fifties. There were always St. Patrick's Day parades with floats, bands, etc. Perhaps not as elaborate as the parades nowadays but there was less money around.

In the mid-80s I sat with an older woman in Sandymount watching some coverage of Chicago celebrations on the telly, including their pollution of local rivers with green dye and local amadáin drinking beer with green food colouring in it. She was appalled (as was I), and it got us talking about the various ways of "celebrating" the day. While her stories were wonderful, I had mostly appalling stuff to relate about the doings here in the U.S. (although they weren't dyeing large bodies of water in the northeast U.S. at that time).

There may have been a few parades in Ireland that year -- I don't really know, and I haven't a grudge against parades per se, just tacky Yank ones. All the places I might like to go (libraries, shops, etc.) were closed for the day, so I had little reason to travel far except to the nearby strand. It was a peaceful & quiet day with few folks on the streets and little traffic. Even if one isn't of a religious bent, you have to admit that such peacefulness is a better tribute to a patron saint than the raucous nonsense perpetrated today.

quote:

Snakes were driven out of Ireland by St. Patrick who lived in the 400s or the 5th century if you prefer.

I don't think snakes ever made it to Ireland in the first place as Ireland was physically cut from Europe before they made it here

On the parades issue I'm old enough to remember the dreary parades of the 60s and 70s in Dublin which were exhibitions of crass commercialism, with companies from Aer Lingus to Abel Alarms using the event for cheap advertising. The more recent parades may be too Latin American in feel for some, but it provides a focus for dozens of community groups (often from deprived areas) to spend weeks rehearsing and creating costumes for a fun day out.

Almost every town and village has some kind of parade and most are not Gaelic per se, just an opportunity for local groups to march and have a bit of fun. In Dingle they have two parades, one at dawn and the other at about midday.

Personally, I prefer to go for a walk on beachon Slea Head and enjoy the day off work!

To each his own, but at least the St Pat's parades do not have the overt political overtones and tensions that bedevil parades in other parts of our island

My recollections from childhood were more in tune with Cionaodh. That’s not to say that some of the cities didn’t have parades but in the rural regions things weren’t celebrated on such a large scale.

We’d be bundled off into town for Mass and afterwards a nice fry breakfast at the local pub. A big treat in those days and more of a gift to my mother than for us children. That evening we would gather at my Grandmother’s for supper and the Aunts and Uncles would do their “party pieces”. A sean nós piece, the broom dance or Uncle Martin on the fiddle. It was a feast day. It was like a Sunday…no school, no work - just Mass and a meal at Nana’s with my cousins.

I’m sure that sounds rather boring when compared to the elaborate events going on this week in Boston, Dublin and New York but I’d give anything to sit and listen to those long departed voices once again. For me that will always be my sense of “Irish pride”.

I find it weird to see the way the shamrock is wrong in the US,UK and sometimes even in Ireland..a small but important thing to get right,no?

Not going into the city centre this year (I feel sorry for the tourists)..too much chaos on previous years..was not pleasant..would like to get to a mass with traditional music and a bit of Gaeilge..

why is it that RTE news presenters/announcers use Irish only this week? why can't they bother their a**es any other time of the year?? our national language is just a once yearly thing for them I think...such a conservative organisation it is..but I suppose TV3 and 6 don't even know what Irish is!!

I’m sure that sounds rather boring when compared to the elaborate events going on this week in Boston, Dublin and New York

Not to me, Johannah. Celebrating a saint's day that way sounds just right.

A Riona a chara,

I wasn't implying ignorance on anyone's part...rather a serious lack of appreciation. You have to remember that our interest in the Irish language and culture makes us the odd balls. :0)

When I tell people that I am learning Irish, I usually hear something along the lines of "I thought they just spoke English with an accent?" To which I always counter, and how do you suppose they got that accent?

And speaking of snakes, there is a funny ecard floating around the net I recommend seeing where you see snakes by the hundreds being chased away by Patricus himself....and it says "And then St. Patrick spoke out for all the sacred lands of Ireland to hear, and with these words cast out the serpants...umm tastes like chicken." LOL

Sure and I knew that there weren't snakes there on account of a really well-done nature program about Ireland I saw. I just wanted to tell Do Chinniuint that I knew what he was talking about unlike so many in America.

Johana a chara, I think that sounds like a grand way to spend Saint Patrick's Day and I understand why you would miss it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

"Most Americans who go to great lengths to enjoy this day can't tell you what animal was "driven out of Ireland."
alright mar sin, cén t-ainm atá air? (ni nathair(riamh), ach cen t-ainmhí fiáin (ainm Laidin)?

"_e_a_o_e_o_ _i_a_t_u_

The American celebrations on St. Patrick's Day originated in the 18th century because the Irish immigrants, in a new home that seemed somewhat wonderful and strange at the same time, needed to feel a sense of solidarity and comfort. A surge of prejudice against the Irish, esp. in the 1840s from the "Know-Nothing Party," increased the Irish need to show their pride in their Faith and ethnicity. Yes, the parades have become too commercialized, but YOU need to overlook this and look a little closer at those who are marching. If you look at the faces of the marchers, especially in those groups, such as the police and fire departments which gave the Irish the first opportunity for social mobilization, and those in the county contingencies, the pride and solidarity still exists, and needs to be shown every once and a while. If only to remind others of the great contributions that the Irish have made to America.

the pride and solidarity still exists, and needs to be shown every once and a while. If only to remind others of the great contributions that the Irish have made to America.

If a tenth of them showed their faces in an Irish language class, we'd have millions of speakers worldwide. But many of these people are only "Irish" once a year.

If you look at the faces of the marchers, especially in those groups, such as the police and fire departments which gave the Irish the first opportunity for social mobilization, and those in the county contingencies, the pride and solidarity still exists, and needs to be shown every once and a while. If only to remind others of the great contributions that the Irish have made to America.

Maith thú a Maggie,

I consider those countless Irish Americans as being Irish everyday of the year, and am very proud of their contributions to this country and the respect they've earned for the Irish community. In terms of Irishness, they rank much, much higher than any self-righteous Irish-language teacher or students who think simply by studying the Irish language they're better than those that have served this country as police, fire-fighters, teachers, and in other walks of life.

Happy St. Patrick's Day to you!

A Mhaggie a chara, (Dear Maggie)

You are right that the Irish and Americans of Irish decent have done amazing things and made huge contributions to America. The US would not be what it is today without their hard work.

Cionaodh, I agree that learning Irish is also really important and that Irish can use as many speakers as possible so it would be great if more people went to classes and tried to learn to speak it.

I don't think that we ought to belittle either group of people, the people who march for Irish acomplishments or the people who work very hard to speak Irish and preserve it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

There are times when I have thoughts very similar to Cionaodh...

No one is questioning the contribution the Irish have made to the world, especially when a good majority of the world didn't exactly accept the Irish in with open arms.

However, as Maggie Burke brought up, what is being honored in the modern day parade? The police, the fire departments...these were some of the few jobs that the Irish were allowed to have because of the degree of danger involved when the Irish were considered to rather expendable. It has really only been in the last 100 years or so that these positions have become the idolized hereos of modern day culture...in the 1800's police and firemen were not all well thought of. ;0(

But even today, when we talk about the "contributions" the Irish have made, we do so in modern terms. We talk about the police, fire fighters, the fortune 500...but are we honoring the Irish, or are we honoring the Irish-American? Because this holiday was intended for the Irish, to honor THEIR past.

With all the traditions of today, the only thing we are really sharing with the Irish, at least in my opinion, is the excessive drinking ;0(

And anyone who disagrees with me, I challenge them to go to Ireland on any of the other 364 days of the year and try to tell the Irish people about their culture in terms of leprechauns, rainbows, pots o'gold, and four leaf clovers and see the expression on their faces. Don't get me wrong...come March 17th, there are going to be the same types of parades across Ireland also. As I said, I was in Cork last year and I couldn't tell the difference between Ireland's party and the State's party...but they weren't honoring anything either, the were just out having a good time and using this holiday as an excuse to party even harder.

All I know is that I can't wait until Saturday and I have no plans to get smashed, never have been and don't really intend to be.

I was just trying to help Maggie feel like her contribution was welcome. I do agree that the police and firemen in America have nothing to do with Saint Patrick, but since those parades in which Americans of Irish decent in the police force are in America it makes sense that Americans would think of contributions like those, even if they aren't technically related to the day. Better that than just thinking of partying too hard.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Oh no...don't get me wrong. I wasn't taking a side in a debate. In fact, I think she brings up a very valid point about the day.

I was merely trying to say that I feel the day has become, or is becoming, a very dishonest day. If we want another day to have a party then that is fine. Believe me when I say that I also am looking forward to going out and about to have a good time and see what everyone is doing on this day. But lets call it what it is, just another party. It stopped having any serious reverence for the Irish culture a very long time ago.

What good is having all these Irish symbols if no one is going to take the time to understand their meanings and appreciate them? Everyone knows about shamrocks...but not everyone knows that they are important in Irish foklore because this is how Patricus is said to have explained the concept the Holy Trinity in his conversion efforts. Why leprechauns when there are so many other Irish creatures? Because leprechauns represented the bad aspects of human nature (greed, malice, lust...) that could be overcome by Christian practice.

All the religious connections aside, are we not discrediting the Irish culture by turning such symbols into mere gimmicks???

How do you think people from the United States would feel if 150 years from now there was a holiday being celebrated around the world where the Statue of Liberty is reduced from beng a symbol of freedom to a symbol for toga parties? Where if you tried to tell someone that once upon a time the statue use to have a very powerful meaning to people...and the response you get is something along the lines of "really I didn't know about that, I just thought it was something we put on stuff for St. Washington's Day," or "I thought the toga just showed she liked to party...now pass me a beer and lets see the beads!!!"

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on March 16, 2007)

Cionaodh

The only parades you don't like are "Tacky Yank ones"? Reallly
You come across as a pompous ass, but I could be wrong, you may not be pompous, though you seem to be.

there are many more people of Irish descent in the USA than there are in Ireland. Those with balls left to forge a new life in various places around the world. Ever hear of the flight of the Earls? My family left in 1740 and fought the English here in two wars after leaving Letterkenny. We "Yanks" of Irish ancestry especially Ulster don't need instruction on how properly to be Irish. Irish may be only a place to you, but it is also the essence of the soul by those of the blood.

Cionaodh,
You are on the money as far as you original post,
sad to say I am almost relieved when St. Patricks Day is over.

Ó hAilbheartaigh,
There, I spelled your name correctly for you. You remind me of the old Irish Gaelic sayings:
"Glór mór i gceann folamh"
and "It's often a person's mouth broke their nose"

Have a happy St. Plastic's Day.

there are many more people of Irish descent in the USA than there are in Ireland. Those with balls left to forge a new life in various places around the world.

An féidir leat é sin (nó aon rud eile) a rá i nGaeilge le do mhagairlí -- má tá aon agatsa?

Irish may be only a place to you, but it is also the essence of the soul by those of the blood.

Is teanga í domsa; ní áit í. Ní bhím i mo chónaí i dteangacha mar tusa.


The only parades you don't like are "Tacky Yank ones"? Reallly
You come across as a pompous ass, but I could be wrong, you may not be pompous, though you seem to be.

Is féidir nach bhfuil mé ach i m'asal féin.

Ní chaithim an dath uaine de ghnáth. Mar sin cheannaigh mé péire stocaí uaine le haghaidh an lae fiche bliain ó shin. Tá siad agam fós. Beidh siad orm amárach. (Bhí mé ar tí "... agus sin an méid" a scríobh, ach is féidir go mbainfí an chiall chontráilte as sin!)

Tá baint idir Oíche Shamhna agus Lá Féile Phádraig: cuireann na laethanta sin déistín ar dhaoine le ciall. Tagann an dream anti-social chun tosaigh. Cuireann siad náire orm lena "spraoi".

I think that the problem here is that everyone has different ideas about how Irishness should be expressed on St. Patricks Day. One thing that I think we can all agree with though is that the holiday has become far too commercialized and inauthentic in many ways. Shouldn't we just leave it at that and choose authentic ways to celebrate? There is no reason to fight over this.

Beir bua agus beannacht

I read this today and I think is a nice way of finding a middle ground to various arguments (I am posting this in peace). I hope you all enjoy tomorrow, no matter how you celebrate (I am baking soda bread as I type).

----------------------------------------------------------
St Patrick's Day Greetings 2007 from President McAleese

Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ar chlann mhór dhomhanda na nGael, sa bhaile agus ar fud na cruinne, ar ár lá náisiúnta ceiliúrtha.

A very happy St Patrick's Day to all those taking part in this year's festivities which link Ireland's global family and its many friends in a huge celebration 'of the green' all over the world. It was Irish emigrants who introduced their vibrant culture to a multitude of new homelands and we have them to thank for the tide of affection and enthusiasm which the name of St Patrick evokes far and wide. Today a prosperous Ireland is itself attracting immigrants from many far-off shores and they are adding greatly to our legendary cultural buoyancy. The Irish love of music, dance, fun and friendship will be showcased in every continent thanks to the work of countless committees whose passion for Ireland and her unique heritage has seen the St Patrick's Day pageant grow into a truly global phenomenon. I thank them all for this outstanding network which connects Ireland to her children and her friends in such a joyful way. I hope that their commitment and dedication will be repaid by the best St Patrick's Day celebrations ever.

Enjoy them wherever you are and may St Patrick bless each one of you.

MARY McALEESE
PRESIDENT OF IRELAND

http://picasaweb.google.com/Mullingar.Parade/MulllingarStPatricksDayParade

Craic agus spraoi i Muileann Cearr

Lá Fhéile Pádraig daoibh go léir

"No one is questioning the contribution the Irish have made to the world"

They lived out their lives, for their own purposes, and as there was enough of them, and were forced to become a political force, they got themselves into power, in a sense by been pused out of the fold. I think people contribute to themselves and this on an aggregate level changes things, but talking about 'contributions to the world' suggests it was intrinsically positive, or done to the betterment of the world. There are more poor people on the planet now than before Irish-AMericans existed; by the same logic you could say that they caused this.

As an aside point, in the initial days, such as the 17th century, the Irish Scots and Welsh outnumbered the English in the colonies. All old blue bloods from New England have Irish ancestry (even if names were changed), so their nativist beliefs were really delusions.

"Those with balls left to forge a new life in various places around the world. Ever hear of the flight of the Earls?"

In the time period we are dealing with here, most of it was not out of choice (19th century). The Earls were brave, but were ill advised to take Spanish bonafides after they had secured Ulster.

I would have 2 golden rules here: a) keep good relations with your neighbours (do a deal with England, and keep Ulster) and b) NEVER trust a Latin speaking Catholic country (don't trust Spain). Once the Spanish signed a non-aggression pact, they let Ó Néill rot in Rome.

As an aside point -how big will the Flight be commemorated this year? Most Irish won't know about it.

"President McAleese"

God-awful woman -wish she'd take flight, but BACK to Ulster!

There were hundreds of thousands out celebrating on the streets yesterday. There were marching bands (many from the USA) pageants, clowns, flags, bunting, families, young and old and in betweens, all races and colours. All having a great time even in the rain.

That was the real St. Patrick's Day.

The minority of drunken messers who make the headlines are not what it's all about.

Antóin...unfortunately those few "drunken messers" making the headlines are the ones who tend to ruin the moment for everyone else because they are the ones getting all the attention these days ;0(

I have to agree with Riona's statement above, in all the posts on this thread...the problem wasn't the celebration of St. Pratrick's Day, rather the manner it which it is celebrated. And like most things in life, it is completely up to the attitude of the individual.

I think there are really two groups about this subject. Those who like myself tend to take a "traditionalist" approach because of our connection to the Irish culture...and those who take a "modernist" approach to the holiday. Both are acceptable, but don't play well together :0)

Last night I went to the main city party and it was what I expected it to be. There were thousands of people wearing green, silly costumes, sexy costumes (thank you ladies ;0), music, lots of alcohol of every kind, and I saw at least two accounts of flashing for beads. People were out having a great time and I couldn't be happier for them even if I don't personally agree with this type of celebrating.

And as for BRN's post, you mentioned some very good points as to why we need to celebrate this day. Granted I think it was meant to have a slightly more religious flavor to it in the beginning, St. Pratrick's Day has become a day to mention the Irish, all Irish, both past and present for their story both bad and good.

"I saw at least two accounts of flashing for beads"

Sorry, that's a phrase I don't understand ? I'm curious - what was the activity?

quote:

I'm curious - what was the activity?

Tháinig an nós seo ó Mardi Gras i New Orleans. Chaití muincí saora déanta as gloine nó plaisteach ó na balcóiní ar Sráid Bourbon chuig an slua. Bhíodh cuid de na féachadóirí sásta a gcíocha (nó rudaí eile uaireanta) a thaispeáint le go gcaithfí a lán muincí chucu!


(Message edited by dennis on March 18, 2007)

A Dho Chinniuint a chara,

That stuff embarrases me too. I wish people were a bit less ... obnoxious and inapropriate.

Beir bua agus beannacht

quote:

Tháinig an nós seo ó Mardi Gras i New Orleans. Chaití muincí saora déanta as gloine nó plaisteach ó na balcóiní ar Sráid Bourbon chuig an slua. Bhíodh cuid de na féachadóirí sásta a gcíocha (nó rudaí eile uaireanta) a thaispeáint le go gcaithfí a lán muincí chucu!

Bhuel, Bím ag cur le m'eolas i gcónaí. Níl aon teora leis an oiliúint.

Spring Break!

A BhRN a chara,

Mine starts next week, well actually on Fri. because my last final exam is on Thurs.

Beir bua agus beannacht