A chairde,

In my quest to find the last people in Ireland with limited English (I'm talking about Irish speakers here, not immigrants just in case anyone was confused) I have compiled a data base of my findings so far. I currently have 28 people listed, from the 70s through today who fit this description. Most of the people I've come across tell of are from the 90s or now. One man in particular has a mutual aquaintance with myself which is how I found out about him. I've been looking into this since last Feb. and this is what I have come to so far.

If anyone knows of people who fit this description and would be willing to tell me I'd greatly appreciate it. I don't know whare this is all going, it is probably a waste of my time but I'm drawn to this topic and anything you might tell me would be greatly appreciated by me.

Beir bua agus beannacht

I hope in time that you find more, and that I can contribute when I am more fluent by actually visiting an area.

To see how different these speakers are would be interesting

I have appreciated the help and kindness that everyone here has given me in regard to this as well as everything else I've done here. Many of the cases I've found are from people here. I'm always trying to look out for more and trying to add details to the situations already listed through research. Since most of my cases have come from the Internet, some are very lacking in detail, I've cataloged them anyway for postarity because I want to have it all written down and organized with sources and relevent information.

Could this ever go anywhare, I don't know but I appreciate everyone's assistance.

A BhRN, you are a kind one in the end to be sure and I would be interested in anything you had to say on the subject.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Riona,

Good luck with your project. I would look forward to reading your conclusions if you make them available somewhere.

I hope you don't mind me bolding part of the last word, but I thought I would help remove some confusion that ensued after Róman's query. I think that you have excellent writing and communication skills and your efforts described above could become valuable in written form for us and others to read.

Just found 3 more to add.

I would need to find a way to transfer my data to an e-mailable format but if I could then I could e-mail it to people around here someday if they'd like it. It is a never ending project though so I'm always adding to it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

You'd be talking over 50's anywho.

I know there's people in the complete backarse of conamara and Tír Chonaill (Machaire Rabhartaigh - that's not spelt right) who have only very limited english.

I absolutely love those people soooo much, ba bhreá liom bheith mar sin!

A Dhomhnail a chara, who doesn't?


I'm sure that we can all agree that they are unique and deserve lots of respect. Do you know any of them specifically or are you just talking generally.

Riona, a chara. Forgive me for being off-topic here ach tá Ragús le fáil ó Netflix anois má tá suim agat ann.
Ragus: A Unique Irish Experience (2005)

No unfortunately not specifically..
The Fear an tí in a house i stayed in ar an gCeathrú Rua had only a few words of english.. Not to say i was fit to kiss him!! lol

Cén teach inar fhan tú is cén tainm a bhí air, muna gcuireann sé isteach ort? Tá mé fiosrach mar bhí aithne agam ar go leor daoine ann uair.

Well then a Dhomhnail, you do know of someone that I can add to my list! GRMMA! You can tell me more if you are willing.

I'll have to ask my friend if I can use her netflix to rent that video since I couldn't see it on Inis Mor due to its not being there this year :(

Beir bua agus beannacht

Bhíos ann mar dhalta i gcoláiste samhraidh cholumba cúpla bliain ó shin..

Teach Máire Bean Uí Fhlathartha in aice leis an mbialann "an fheadóg" ceapaim..

Cuilleán nó Caorán Mór?

Hi, a friend just gave me this website. My family always referred to the language spoken by my grandparents as Gaelic, what is the difference between this and Irish & Old Irish?

"Gaelic" is a name encompassing three related languages, Irish, Scottish and Manx (spoken on the Isle of Man). When used by itself to refer to a single language it typically means Scottish, although it has frequently been used for any of those three by outsiders (and some insiders alike).

Irish is a modern language like English and French and Chinese. Its relationship to Middle Irish and Old Irish is much like modern english's relationship to middle english (canterbury tales) and old english (beowulf).

I'm curious when I hear Gaeilge called "Gaelic" by native speakers. See here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bEgJyWaNoG0

Cuilleán!

Níor chuala mé blás na SA riamh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc1xlK9H0WU&NR

When I was in Ireland, and went to both Connemara and the Kerry gaeltachtaí all of those whom I heard speaking Irish among themselves and then had cause to speak with in english referred to the language (in english) as "Gaelic."

The conclusion I drew was that this was a product of either 1) contact with local english speakers who used the term, so when speaking english the natives followed suit
or
2) knowing the term was an expedient, assuming ignorance on the part of the english speaker.

I'm disinclined to #2 because on two instances my mother was talking with shopkeepers she heard speaking Irish and said, "oh, my son's been studying Irish for almost ten years" to which they both replied (in separate places), "oh, he speaks gaelic, does he?"

It seems to me that the distinction between "Gaelic" and "Irish" only matters to students, linguists and those who are active in the politcs of the language. Speakers who use it simply because it's their language and never give it more thought than that never seem to care. And I daresay most speakers of any language fall into that category - they simply use the language without thinking about it too much...

I thought he was saying his name was Gumass!

Irish is 66th in America. Cá bhfuil sí in Europ?

Ní ceapaim go bhfuil aon fhigiúr ann!

From the UTube link:

is Merikawnak mé, agus is foghlaim mé Gaeilge

"agus is foghlaim mé Gaeilge"

I dont know with the copula been there, but normally, should there not be a debarring of personal pronoun as direct object after the verbal noun?

Just a guess but I suspect that those who speak Irish and live in a more urban setting would be more irritated by the idea of calling it Gaelic. As Antaine said, the average Irish speaker from the Gaeltacht just speaks the language and that is all that matters one way or the other. I have to say that I'm surprised and slightly doubtful that Irish is the 66th most commonly spoken language in the US. I'm also enjoying imagining all of those fancy people on Martha's vineyaard speaking Irish to each other, I'd definitely want to go there then :)

indeed, the 2000 US census pegged Irish as the 66th most spoken out of 322 languages in the US. The number, if memory serves me correct, was almost 26,000

http://www.usenglish.org/foundation/research/lia/

considering that there are approx. 28,000 children enrolled in pre-secondary gaeilscoileanna (plus another 6,000 in the high schools) that's pretty good...

Native speakers of Irish refer to the language as Gaelic because that is what it is called in Irish: Gaedhilge means, literally, Gaelic, not Irish. The urbanites that Riona referred to may claim to be offended by referring to the language as Gaelic because in the Republic of Ireland the language is officially called "Irish" as it is the official language of the country. But this is really in the realm of politics, reflecting the pretence that Gaelic is the real national language rather than Hiberno-English. I think "Irish Gaelic" is by far the best name for the language. There is no rhyme or reason why the term Gaelic should be restricted to Scottish Gaelic simply because the Irish government claims that Ireland's official language must be called "Irish" rather than "Gaelic". Historically and etymologically speaking, the two languages are known as Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic.

I too am skeptical about the number of Irish speakers in the US. It was based, I believe on a sampling of 1 out of 6 people. The numbers seem greatly inflated and I suspect many falsely claimed (as in Ireland) to be speakers out of ethnic pride. If you compare the Scottish Gaelic and Welsh figures to the Irish it seems very very unlikely.

my understanding is that it is not a 1:6 sampling but the census returns from every household. i initially questioned it myself, but others who are familiar with the amount of people who emigrated from the gaeltacht to the US during the 70s and early 80s said that 25,000 seemed reasonable. Other groups that carry similar "ethnic pride" in the US like the scots don't report numbers that high.

I recently had a surge of findings and so now my list is up to 32 people.

Beir bua agus beannacht

how many are within the last 10 years?

how many are within the last 10 years and younger than 50?

Rídheana has a list of 32 people, but it is not a list of anything concrete. Proper research is not a collection of hunches found on the Internet. To really research this project, you would need to look at the Irish census for a start. How many monoglot Irish speakers are listed in the census? Any at all? Secondly, you would need to go to the Gaeltacht and find them. You could go to old people's homes - but they would want to know you had a good reason for disturbing old people. You would need to be from a university and speak fluent Gaelic yourself before you could really go and talk to the old people. So this list is worthless.

There are many expert people on this list. Aonghus and Dennis are two of them, and they have expressed scepticism. It would be humility to recognize their greater knowledge. They really are far more likely to know than anyone else. Also in another thread, Rídheana says that the existence of monoglot Gaels is her "opinion" and she is entitled to it. But: this would not be regarded as a good argument in a PhD thesis. These people either exist or not, and people's opinions on the matter are either right or wrong, just like people have the right to believe the earth is flat.

I am afraid I am inclined to believe Aonghus who has said any monoglot Gaels are either in their dotage or are of a pre-nursery age.

There are none under 50 on my list. Let me count those within the last 10 years ...

I counted around 21. One of these people is an aquaintance of a woman I stayed with while in Ireland.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Kieran a chara,

Sure and if you intend upon being harsh with me you ought to learn how to spell my name or at least how to write something that sort of looks like my name. I thought I was bad at spelling :)

No, I'm not a ph.d student or a decent Irish speaker. That is why what I have is just a list and not some up-and-coming academic shake-up. My research may be "dodgy" but it is the best I can do at present and I'm sorry that it seems to bother you.

As to the census, is there still an Irish only box to check? Even if there was, these people have a bit of English so they are not completely monoglot. Besides they might very well feel self-concious marking the disputed Irish only box.

I certainly am not intentionally trying to controdict Dennis and Aonghus. I respect them and their immense knowledge about Irish and I know that they are very clever and that I lack in that department very much.

You can call me gullable, foolish, ignorant or obnoxious or whatever you like, but I'm fascinated and intrigued by this topic and I shall continue looking and noting my findings.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Scríobh Riona Sure and if you intend upon being harsh with me you ought to learn how to spell my name or at least how to write something that sort of looks like my name. I thought I was bad at spelling :)

Maith thú a Riona, tá an ceart agat agus tá tú an ghreannmhar! I had to read Kieran's post a dozen times before it dawned on me that he was talking about you! By the way, I think you have good spelling. You wanna see some bad spelling, hang around with some of us engineers!

A Kieran, if you haven't done so already, you might want to read the FIRST LINE OF THE FIRST POST in this thread. Riona makes it clear that she's discussing her quest to find the last people in Ireland with limited [emphasis added] English. So when Riona talks about folks with limited English, she's not talking about monoglot speakers, is she? To use your saying I think that "it would be humility" for you to realize and admit that you're talking about an entirely different subject than what this thread is about, i.e. Limited-English speakers versus Monoglot [Irish] speakers

Ríodhna

Rídheana

Their 'fit' depends on how you intent to pronounce it in English, I suppose. Ree-un-ah, is it?

I suppose those spellings could make some sense, but the way I spell it is to truth very much easier, or so I think.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Where is the name from?

How do you pronounce it? Is there a 'correct' one, or is it a name that was picked, so can be pronounced any way?

You see, in Irish spelling, there would be no accepted way to spell a name with a diphthong the way it seems to me in English, as I dont hear it in Irish.

You could approximate it with use of consonants, and that is what I thought he was doing. His spelling is actually closer to Irish orthography than the one used, that is why I wondered what was so bad by the spelling, that's all.

Tá tú i do shuí sách déanach san oíche, a Bharney. Tá sé beagnach a trí in Éirinn anois. An bhfuil braon ar bord agat? In vino veritas a deirtear, but it's hell on spelling.

Táim ag scríobh! Fuair mé fadhb mhór san obair a bhínn ag ordaidh tríd a ríomh-phost amárach/inniu, so, tá gá leis a bheith anseo san oíche. Táim ar mo 'break'

Aonghus gave me my name. There is supposed to be a fada over the i but other than that he spelled it as I do.

Beir bua agus beannacht

How Riona got her name is very interesting and was dealt with in another thread. But for Aonghus she would have been a "convict" (I'll let Riona or Aonghus explain that one)

I have seen the name Riona (pronounced REE-uh-neh)used as a dimunitive of Caitriona (Cait and Triona being more commom dimunitives of the same name)

Sorry, I'm going "off-thread" here as this is supposed to be about Riona's project, gabh mo leithsceal

Tá an scéal ar fad anseo

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/show.pl?tpc=13510&post=32322 #POST32322

A Shuaimhneais a chara,

Sure and don't worry about it, threads drift and the only reason that this one got back on topic a couple of days ago is because I deliberately brought it back.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Riona, a chara, this might not be specific enough for you, but I was on Inis Meain last year (2006) in the month of June if memory is correct and I was talking to a woman, I asked her if there was anyone on the island who still spoke no English and she said 'oh, I suppose, some of the older ones maybe' ('oh, b'fheidir, ceann de na seandaoini b'fheidir'.) I've talked to lads in the Gaeltacht, mainly older fellas, who were a bit slow when they spoke English, but I think apart from that there Bearla was fine.

Tá an Gaeilgeoir gan Bhéarla cosúil le an Yeti nó Bigfoot. Bíonn scéalta faoi ann i gcónaí. Tá an fear bocht seo (seanlead, de ghnáth) ina chónaí áit éigin "eile" , áit éigin iargúlta, áit éigin imeallach, áit éigin ar chúl éaga. Ach tá sé ann. Raight.

A Dhalta a chara,

I do look for specific incidences but GRMA for writing and telling me what you have seen, I appreciate it.

:)

Beir bua agus beannacht