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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (November-December) » Archive through December 29, 2006 » Verbs « Previous Next »

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Odwyer
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Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 224
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 02:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Let's say I wanted to say, "He says hello".
It would be translated as "Deir sé Dia duit", right?
But what if I wanted to say, "Charlie says hello"?
Would I translate it as "Charlie deir sé Dia duit" or "Charlie sé Dia duit"?

Thanks :-)

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Asarlaí
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Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 159
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 02:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Deir Charlie 'Dia duit' - Charlie says 'Dia duit'
Verb comes first...

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Odwyer
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Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 225
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 03:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You don't need the "sé", then?

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 03:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

means he; it's a pronoun just like in English.

Sentence structure in Irish goes something like:

[Verb] [Person doing the action] [Object upon which the action is performed] [Prepositions or Adverbs]

An example of this is:

Seán put the pens into the box quietly.
Chuir Seán na pinn isteach sa bhosca go ciúin.

In English, you can rearrange "quietly" to something like "Seán quitely put the pens...", but you've to be careful doing that in Irish because Irish has a very established system of cleavage whereby pertinent information is moved to the front of the sentence via usage of the verb, "is". Examples would be:

Isteach sa bhosca a chuir sé na pinn go ciúin.
Go ciúin a chuir sé na pinn isteach sa bhosca.
Seán a chuir na pinn isteach sa bhosca.

All three sentences above have basically the same meaning, but the listener will look at you funny if they think you've messed up the emphasis.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Ná húsáidigí focail Béarla agus sibh ag labhairt Gaeilge liom, le bhur dtoil. Ní thabharfaidh mé freagra do theachtaireacht ar bith a bhfuil "Gaeilge" neamhghlan inti.

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Odwyer
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Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 226
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 04:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ooooh that explains alot. Thanks! =^_^=

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Odwyer
Member
Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 228
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Wait - isteach is a preposition, box is not. Why does isteach come before box, then?

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1375
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Prepositions typically group together with a noun. For instance, you don't just say:

He went for a walk with.

but you'd say:

He went for a walk with John.

You take the preposition and whatever it's grouped with.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Ná húsáidigí focail Béarla agus sibh ag labhairt Gaeilge liom, le bhur dtoil. Ní thabharfaidh mé freagra do theachtaireacht ar bith a bhfuil "Gaeilge" neamhghlan inti.

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Maidhc_Ó_g
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Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 291
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 04:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

isteach sa bhosca > into the box (Lit. into in the box)

istigh sa bhosca > inside the box (Lit. inside in the box)

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Odwyer
Member
Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 231
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 05:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

GRMA! And do you use "sa" after a preposition?

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1376
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 06:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

No. Here comes a little complication. . .

The Irish for "in" is: i
The Irish for "the" is: an

Therefore, "in the" would be something like: ins an (The "ns" sound is added to help the vowels blend)

"ins an" is further reduced to: sa

Therefore, sa means: in the

"isteach" is a word that loosely translates as "in", but it's more of a helper word which indicates that inward movement is taking place. In Irish, there are dual forms of words depending on whether there's movement taking place. For instance, the Irish for "up" is "suas" when there's movement, but "thuas" when there's no movement. Similarly, the Irish for "in" is "isteach" when there's movement, and "istigh" when there's no movement.

If you want to say "into", you use "isteach" in conjunction with "i":

Chuaigh sé isteach sa seomra.
He went into the room.

As a native speaker of English, you'll notice that Irish is far more elaborate in some ways in that it has many different forms of words depending on the context. There are three words for "up": thuas suas anuas

The first is used when the object is stationary.
The second is used when the object is moving away from the speaker.
The third is used when the object is moving away from the speaker.

Also there's two forms of each pronoun, one stressed and one unstressed.

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Ná húsáidigí focail Béarla agus sibh ag labhairt Gaeilge liom, le bhur dtoil. Ní thabharfaidh mé freagra do theachtaireacht ar bith a bhfuil "Gaeilge" neamhghlan inti.

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Maidhc_Ó_g
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 292
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 06:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

'sa' is the preposition. Istigh and isteach are adjectives. Isteach describes movement inwards : istigh the condition of being inside.

Chuireann sé a pheann isteach sa bhosca. He put his pen into the box.

Chuireann sé > he put
a pheann > his pen
isteach > in/ inward/ into/ inside
sa > in the
b(h)osca > box

Coinníonn sé a pheann istigh sa bhosca. He keeps his pen in the box.

Coinníonn sé > he keeps
istigh sa bhosca > in/ inside the box

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Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 1378
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 06:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

Chuireann sé > he put

The past tense is: Chuir sé (He put)
Present Tense is: Cuireann sé (He puts)

quote:

Coinníonn sé a pheann istigh sa bhosca. He keeps his pen in the box

Ní cheapaim go ndéarfaí an cainteoir "istigh sa bhosca" seachas "sa bhosca", .i. gan an "istigh".

-- Fáilte Roimh Cheartú --
Ná húsáidigí focail Béarla agus sibh ag labhairt Gaeilge liom, le bhur dtoil. Ní thabharfaidh mé freagra do theachtaireacht ar bith a bhfuil "Gaeilge" neamhghlan inti.

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Odwyer
Member
Username: Odwyer

Post Number: 232
Registered: 05-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 07:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Don't know what I'd do without the Daltai! Thanks guys!

Ceartaígí mo chuid Ghaeilge, le bhur dtoil!



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