Hello...

I was surfing the net and I came across this site...I don't recall ever seeing anything posted about it so I thought I would bring it up...

There is a site out there called "You Tube" which has small clips of Gaeilge being used. They range from clips of weather and news reports to teenagers just playing around with their computers. The clips very in size from 33 seconds to 4-5 minute shorts.

Has this been posted before?

Here is the link to the site:

http://www.youtube.com

Just type Gaeilge in the search bar and you will get 51 hits...

Not much, but it's nice to see.

I think that one can find a little bit of most things on that website, in the last few weeks I've been hearing about it everywhare but none before that. That's neat that its got stuff as Gaeilge.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Yes you can find just about everything on that site...

Not only can you find clips as gaeilge...but you can also find a good assortment of Irish music as well. I just watched Sinead O Conner singing "Paddy's Lament" one of my personal favorites.

There is also some Scottish and Welsh there also for those interested....

Some guy named Manchán has a few funny clips on there. Apparently he went on a journey throughout Ireland and tried to get by speaking Irish exclusively. Reactions ran the gamut from bemused to outright hostile. Funny and sad at the same time.

A Dhomhnail a chara,

Can you please send me those links, I think I'd find that very interesting indeed.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Táim tar éis féachaint "No Béarla". I would be embarrassed if I were Irish after seing this series and would rush to the book-shop immediately! :(

Seo duit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il0w_yZ0CUY&NR

Go raibh mile maith agat a Cheolmhar for that link. Wow, I've got to see more. Is there any more of it on that site? Can someone send me a link to the rest le do thoil?

Beir bua agus beannacht

I went out there after reading this, and one of the videos I watched was the Horslips. It made me recall that one of my favorite musicians, Paddy Keenan, used to be in a band called the Bothy Band, who I had never heard. I was able to go out and find a video of theirs from sometime in the '70s, which was pretty fun!
I just wanted to ask, how is the word "bothy" pronounced? Is that an Irish word, a proper name, or what? (And I'm coming from a yank's perspective, just FYI..)

It's a form of bothán, which has passed into Scots english.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bothy

Riona,

Just go to the website and type in "Gaeilge" in the search.

There are currently 51 videos but I am sure there will be more to come.

I really liked the "No Béarla" clips because I have had several similar experiences when I was in Ireland. When I would try to speak Irish with someone it was without hesitation I heard "Níl Gaeilge agam." Which just drives me crazy. This goes for all languages not just Irish:

IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU DON'T SPEAK OR KNOW A LANGUAGE...PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DOING IT IN THAT LANGUAGE.

I know this is very harsh, and do not think I am calling anyone who does this a hypnocrite, but what else can be said about a person who uses a language to tell a person that they do not know that language??? If you know how to tell them you don't know the language, it is usually a good bet that you know more about the language than you are letting on, and just don't want try. That in my mind either makes one a hypocrite, or just plain rude.

But getting back to the "No Béarla" clips...I thought that the most interesting part was that he was targeting people who appeared to be 18-25 years old and none of them knew the language. I gave a little room for the older adults not remembering, but this age range just came out of the schools systems. They are the group of people who should have had the greatest chance of speaking some Irish back to him and they couldn't!

That is a very scary thought.

Again about "bothy", just to clarify: am I understanding it correctly in that the "th" is pronounced the way we here in the U.S. would pronounce it, as opposed to the way it would be pronounced as Gaeilge (i.e. silent "t")?

So is there anywhare that I can watch "no Bearla" in its entirety? I would really like to see the whole thing.

Beir bua agus beannacht

"that the "th" is pronounced the way we here in the U.S. would pronounce it"

Yes, that is the pronunciation that the Bothy Band used themselves

"IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU DON'T SPEAK OR KNOW A LANGUAGE...PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DOING IT IN THAT LANGUAGE"

I think that this is a bit harsh. For a start, the other person may not have another language themselves, so they may not understand you if you speak in your native tongue.

Secondly, I think most people find it courteous if you attempt to communicate with them, however briefly or inexpertly in their own tongue.

The people Gavin refers to who responded "Níl Gaeilge agam" knew that they could have replied in English, but responded in Irish out of courtesy to him. This doesn't make them hypocites and it certainly does not mean that they are rude

I know it's a bit harsh, that's why I said so...

Actually "hypocrite" might be closer than you think. In this case I do not mean it in a negative way but in an honest way. To say that one doesn't have a language at them by using that language to express it, is a flat out lie in my opinion because one obviously recgonized or understood the language, decided that they couldn't or wouldn't speak it, and then used that language to inform they couldn't use the language.

I have gone to Ireland every summer for the last 15 years, and each time I go there I try to chat with someone in Irish. Now I will admit, it's 50-50. And since I like to visit the Gaeltachts more, it hasn't been hard for me to find people to speak with. I usually try to speak with people in the age range I feel should have the easiest time to speak it back to me. That (18-25) range.

However, I have found that the age group 6-15 and 50+ seem to be the people I talk with the most in Irish. Most of the people who tell me they can't speak the language fall between the age range 20-40. And I can't believe this to be true. There is not one person in this age range who hasn't had some exposure to the language. I never expected anyone to be fluent, but I did expect for them to be able to recognize basic phrases and words.

I can't even begin to count the number of times I asked "An bhfuil Gaeilge agat?" And the most common response I hear is "Sorry I don't speak Irish?" Now granted I have an American accent, but I really doubt that got in the way. This response in my mind tells me one of three things:

1) I said it wrong....I doubt it.
2) Irish people have bad hearing...I doubt it.
3) Those people didn't recognize or understand what I
said...most likely.

Now there might be something that I am overlooking. I will accept this as a possibility. But I am having a hard time believing that that the people of Ireland were never taught how to respond to this question. At least they didn't say "Níl Gaeilge agam." Although I honestly want to believe they could have.

But like the man in the clips, had they shown they knew some Irish...I would have pressed to try and find out what they did know...just like he did.

Gavin, maybe I'm not understanding at all here, but it sounds like first you're angry that they told you in Irish that they don't speak Irish, and then you're angry that they tell you in English that they don't speak Irish.

What would be an acceptable thing for them to say to you?

I understand enough russian to realize that it's being spoken. The only things i know how to say are "very good," "thank you", "I speak russian" and "i don't speak russian"

I can say i don't speak russian in russian out of courtesy, and really, i don't.

I'd like to add
#4 "i recognized the question from school but haven't used what i learned since then and i don't remember how"

or

#5 "i recognized the question from school but haven't used what i learned since then and i'm not confident enough to try to pronounce what i think i remember the response was"

I agree with Suamhneas, it seems to me that saying it in the expressed language of the speaker would be more polite.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Gavin - Perhaps they answered you in Irish because that's the language you used and they have no way of knowing what other language you know. And perhaps the people who said that they had no Irish didn't feel like speaking Irish. Just because you want something doesn't put any obligation on another party to accommodate you.

Imagine yourself out in a pub with a friend. And up walks someone eager to practice his English. Sometimes you might be willing to chat for a while and other times you will be annoyed for being interrupted. Does that mean you are rude?

I am not angry at all...just a little sad about it.

One of the bad things about posting is that people can't know the emotion behind the words. To be honest, I am not Irish, and I can care less how the Irish choose to handle or choose not to handle the language. I speak Irish because I like it.

Actually, it didn't really matter how they responded to me, but the fact that an Irish person had to ask me if the language I was speaking was Irish was a little upsetting...maybe it didn't sound right coming from my mouth, I will give this credit. However, I know what I was saying was correct.

Also, I was talking about two different groups of people. The group that responded in Irish, I brought up to illustrate my point about using a language to convey the notion you can't use that languge. Which as I said, in my mind is a lie because you are using the language and claiming no knowledge of it. I bit strong of a word I will admit, but a lie it is...to me, if you cannot speak the language it would be more honest and polite to just shrug your shoulders and say in your native language "sorry I don't speak..."

The other group were people (18-25) and (25-40) who told me that they didn't understand a word of Irish. I feel that they should have been the group of people, who if any group of people, should have been able to answer such a basic question. The "sad" part is that these were the majority of the people who couldn't. Now I can understand the older adults being a little rusty who haven't used it for a while ...but the 18-25 year old who just got out of the school systems should have been able to recognize such a simple question.

Antaine...maybe you are right...it's just that I have a hard time swallowing that such a basic phrase is so easily forgotten. I mean, you don't speak Russian but you know when it is being spoken and can say in Russian you don't speak it. As can most people who have dabbled in any language. But most Irish people have had years of Irish in school, and I think it is safe to say they should at least be able to know when it is being spoken. And there were people fresh out of school who couldn't.

A Ghavin a chara,

I think that the reasons people say it in the language the other person is speaking are

1 to be polite, or what they think is polite.
2 because they don't know if that person understands English.

I think that the reasons they say they don't speak any are because
1 that's the only thing they know how to say, they don't know how to say "I only speak a small amount"
2 If they do know how to express that they speak only a small quantity tey don't want the person to keep trying to speak to them.
3 they are just not in the mood to struggle through a conversation as Lucy suggests.

Beir bua agus beannacht

Unfortunately, it seems to be the case that a lot of people in Ireland "learn" Irish through the school system but develop little or no confidence in speaking the language. As a result, they think that they can't speak the language, period.

I have many Irish friends who always protest "I don't speak Irish" when I ask them how to say something. When I speak to them with my own limited Irish, however, they always understand me. They're not being deceitful when they say they can't speak it; they just don't realize how much they do know, because they haven't used it in years (my high school Spanish is pretty bad, too!) and because they compare themselves to Gaelgeoiri. Speaking Irish to you may mean the ability to recognize a few phrases and toss around the cupla focal; to many people, speaking Irish means confident fluency.

So Gavin, some people may be making a conscious choice not to speak Irish to you. But many may truly believe that nil Gaeilge acu. Because you and I are not Irish, we don't have to take Irish in school and we don't feel like we're somehow being untrue to our culture if we don't speak Irish. Our experience with the language isn't wrapped up in shame, guilt, or anger (hopefully)! In my experience, when people say that they don't speak Irish, it's not a lie--they compare themselves to fluent speakers, and they dismiss their own limited knowledge. I think it's wonderful that you are committed to the language, but be careful to judge--there are a lot of people out there who wish they knew the language better, and a lot who wish people would stop making them feel inferior for their lack of fluency. Either way, jumping to conclusions about their motivation or getting angry at them won't make them more eager to speak Irish.

Agus má bhíonn tú chomh colgach in Éirinn agus a bhíonn tú go minic anseo, a Ghavin, ní éireoidh go maith leat.

Tá nath sa Ghearmáinís;
Wie man im Wald hineinruft, so schallt es wieder hinaus.

A Aonghus...

Quite the opposite really...I keep coming to Ireland because I find it very relaxing. I am not often angry...and in all my years visiting I do not think I have ever left with a negative outlook on the trip...

It's just that I find the whole language situation in Ireland to be rather sad. There is so much potential here, but I see people (both insiders and outsiders) keeping the language down with politics, lack of reinforcements both positive and negative, and frankly what I feel to be a serious social divide for and against the language.

But as I have said, I am not Irish. It is not my battle to fight. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the matter. And I will do my part to help those who might want or need it.

And that's what I like about the You Tube clips...it's people getting their messages out to the world.

I know there are a lot of people who do not agree with me at this site...and that is OK...in truth, sometimes I say things just to get a reaction out of people even if I do not agree with the statements themselves...but as long as there are people willing to talk both pro and con about Irish...I feel there is hope for the future of Irish.

Sorry...I didn't mean to fat finger your name Aonghus :0)

But I also wanted to comment on what Julia wrote to me...I do agree with you. But aren't your friends being deceitful when they say they don't know Irish but then they understand what you are saying to them?

1) They recognize you are speaking Irish with them.
2) They are able to understand what you are saying.
3) I am willing to be they respond to you in some way.

Now if they did not know a little Irish, could they do any of the three things above?

I think people aren't understanding what I mean when I say the word lie. I do not mean it in a negative way...really I don't. I mean it in a look what's actually happening here way. People are saying they don't know something when they actually do. Maybe they realize it and maybe they don't, but in the end they are telling you something that is just not true. If a word other than lie applies here please let me know, I will gladly debate semantics.

A Ghavin a chara,

I think that the important thing here is that everyone on this site cares about Irish and wants to see it do better and thrive. We all might have varying ideas about how to acomplish this desired outcome but we all can agree about the goal. I think that you ultimately want the same thing as everyone else but just have a different way of expressing it.

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Ghavin, I think that "lie" is a loaded word because it implies intentional deceit.

Maybe what we have a discrepancy in definitions of what it means to "understand Irish." You're right that in if they know a few phrases, then they do know some Irish, and I understand your frustration that people discount the little knowledge they do have. But when my friends have said that they don't speak Irish, they mean (I've asked them) that they don't consider themselves to have any real understanding or ability in the language.

I studied Japanese when I was a kid. I can still say a few phrases and understand a few, too, but if someone were to ask me if I spoke Japanese, I would definitely say no! I am unable to hold a converstaion in the language. So by your definition I speak Japanese, but I think people in Japan would disagree. This may explain what you're encountering, and again, just be careful how you characterize people's motivations--lie implies deceitfulness in a situation that may be about, as you pointed out, semantics--how one defines "speaking/understanding Irish".

Like Riona, I admire your passion about the language, Gavin, and I don't doubt your intentions. I'm not happy with the status of the language, either. I just think we should be cautious about being unncessarily polemical.

O, agus go raibh maith ag Gavin agus ag Ceolmhar as na nascanna!

************STOP PRESS***************

Lads, here's a solution to the Irish problem: lets move to a new planet!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/09/0917_020917_planet.html

and another:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4647142.stm

we can have one for each dialect!


************STOP PRESS***************

Scríobh Gavin: I think people aren't understanding what I mean when I say the word lie. I do not mean it in a negative way...really I don't.

An caimseog é, b'fhéidir?

FRC- GRMA

A Mhic,
do you cut + paste that nome de plume of yours, or type it out?

B'fhéidir, tá Gaeilge acu ar an pláinéid sin nua cheanna.

"ar an pláinéid" nó "ar an bpláinéid?"

FRC - GRMA

P.S. Barney, I usually type it over again, but sometime I cut + paste.

Lets call the spaceship An Fiontar. :)

Beir bua agus beannacht

An Fiontar - Is breá liom é!

Conas dearfa "warp speed" as Gaeilge?

FRC-GRMA

A Julia agus Riona,

I will accept this...I agree that we all want what's best and that's why we are here.

As for the planet idea I like it, however, given Irish's history so far...I still don't think that people would be happy ;0)

Warp Speed as Gaeilge?

That's a hard one. In my dictionary I get two verbs "stang" and "saobh."

And then I found on An Chrannóg's website "saobh, stangadh, deilbh, dlúth."

I am not a scientist, but I have seen the star trek movies, if I remember right...the idea of warp speed is to make space smaller or compact it so that you are traveling a greater distance at whatever speed you are traveling???

Dlúth means compact...so maybe something like "luas dlúth?"

I am guessing here...

A Ghavin a chara,

Sounds good to me :) I happen to be a definite trekkie, though I'd never be caught at a convention. :)

Beir bua agus beannacht

Here's an article on warp-speed. There's even a picture of Riona's An Fiontar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_speed

I just can't wait until Star Trek comes out as Gaeilge.

Luas freangtha

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=freangadh%20sp%C3%A1is&lang=2

I would be excited about Star Trek as Gaeilge! O'Brien would be even more exciting to watch :)

Beir bua agus beannacht.

A Aonghuis,

If you wouldn't mind clarifying something for this Mac Léinn. freangtha looks like a verbal adjective, meaning "warped." So, Luas freanghta looks like "warped speed." But we want "warp speed." So would we use "luas freangadh" meaning "warping speed."

Please note that I'm asking as a student whose confused about the proper use of the word for "warp." I hope my question doesn't come across as disrespectful. I checked the regular focal beag but couldn't get any further in understanding. I also check Ó Dónaill's dictionary and there appears to be multiple meanings, but I just can figure it out.

Go raibh maith agat.

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=warp

warp
▪
Réalteolaíocht/Astronomy, Geolaíocht/Geology, Adhmadóireacht, Cearpantóireacht/Woodwork, Carpentry
freangadh fir
gu: freangtha
Foclóir Réalteolaíochta/Dictionary of Astronomy 1996, Foclóir Geolaíochta agus Geoifisice/Dictionary of Geology and Geophysics 2004, Téarmaí Adhmadóireachta/Woodwork Terms 2004

---

I don't consider questions disrespectful ever! But since I mostly operate on intuition, I can't always promise an answer.



(Message edited by aonghus on November 11, 2006)

MAC...

I think this is one of those grey areas that would have been a lot easier to have translated if the creator of the phrase "warp speed" would have did the initial translations...sadly, I don't think Mr. Roddenberry spoke Irish ;0(

The phrase "warp speed" was just a catchy way of giving a speed value. In the modern Star Trek movies and television shows, they say things like "increase speed to warp 5." But in the original series and movie, they said more accurately "increase to warp factor 5."

I think if I had to translate this, I would go with what is actually happening. That is why I thought maybe the idea of "compacted space" was more accurate than "warped space."

But again, you have to remember that all we are doing is trying to find a translation for the phrase "warp speed" as they say it in the shows. Only Mr. Roddenberry could have made this absolute.

How synchronous! Recently in a part of the galaxy far away, the dreaded DORCHA AN BHÁDÓRA was attempting to lure the valiant Obi Wee Falorie to the Dark Side through assurances of victory over all synthetic forms by an a cunning alliance between the Caighdeánians and the Cois Fhairrgans.

How is "An Giall" pronounced as in Brendan Behan's "The Hostage."

Heregoes, since I'd say that this thread was picked at random, so the asker might not be able to find it again, but [ɟɑl̪ˠ] with a glide between the g and a might be acceptable

On Sat. night I saw an episode of generation whare they rescued this population of Irish farmers from a doomed planet, and eventually sent them to mate with these ugly clones and live on their planet. It rather unsettled me because it seems odd that they'd agree to go live with egotistical clones who felt the Irish people inferrior. Anyone remember this episode?

Beir bua agus beannacht

I do, and Star Trek has a history of been rather silly with irish clichés.

[ə ɟɑl̪ˠ] woudl be it with the def art

An = 'uh'

gi =ulster english speakers of inital g (gyap for gap)

a = deep a, as in RP (posh english) 'all'

ll = russian 'deep l'