http://cainteoir.blogspot.com/2006/06/ghaeilge-tr-theangacha-nach-barla-iad.html

quote:

Go minic, is constaic é an Béarla, seachas cuidiú, don té atá ag foghlaim na Gaeilge:

Tagaim leis a Aonghuis. Is bearna é sin a chaithfear a líonadh go tapa.

Leabhar Polannach (gus léiriú fogharscríobh de na focail Ghaeilge) don charn áiseanna:

Leabhair / Books
An Ghaeilge (téacsleabhar Gaeilge / Irish textbook, i gcomhar le Aodán Ó Dubhghaill & Edmund Gussmann, Wydawnictwo KUL, Lublin, 1991), lgh / pp. 458; an dara eagrán, a bhfuil curtha leis / second edition, enlarged, 1997, lgh / pp. 448.

I could sign under every MBM's statement. I am compiling Lithuanian - Irish dictionary now (out of foundation level minimum, plus some expansion from Dillon's textbook) and I am feeling all those problems.

Yesterday I spent several hours trying to translate "aimhleas" - no easy thing as English equivalents "disadvantage, ruin, harm, evil, mischief" don't seem to converge on any particular word in Lithuanian. If you think about it - there are other Irish words for "disadvantage", "ruin", "harm", "evil", so the meaning of "aimhleas" stays elusive. Only by studying ALL examples from Ó Domhnall could I design some acceptable translation. Ok, this is an exotic word, but think about "liath" which is "grey" in English. In almost any other language there are two words for "grey"- grey like colour of ashes, and grey like grey hair. As I understand grey-coloured things are "glas" in Irish, whereas hair is definitely "liath". But then the question is about cats and dogs.

Can you say "cat glas" or only "cat liath"? I have seen "madra glas" in "chomh breoite le madra glas" only. So I still don't know if "madra glas" is some kind of sick dog, or it is a grey-coloured one.

Bhuel, tá glas casta!

glas [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
ar dhath an fhéir nó an duilliúir ag fás; óg, neamhaibí (adhmad glas); gan taithí (tá an fear bocht glas air); neamhoilte (saighdiúirí glasa); lag i mbrí (deoch ghlas); dorcha liath (flainín glas); liathghorm (súile glasa); lonrach mar chruach (sceana glasa); fuar, gruama (aimsir ghlas); gan substaint (iasc glas).

Seo an míniú iontaofa a thug Matt Mac Cárthaigh dúinn ar an liosta Gaeilge-A sa bhliain 1998:

Is féidir liom a mhíniú dhuit conas a úsáidimid na focail sin i gCorca Dhuibhne (an Ghaeltacht i gCiarraí).

Úsáidimid "glas" ag tagairt do "green" i gcás fáiseanna: crainn, toir, féar.

Úsáidimid "uaithne" ag tagairt do "green" i gcás rudaí eile: éadach, falla, mótar.

(Dar ndóigh, níl ainmhithe ann go gcaithfeá focal a bheith agat ar "green" dóibh.)

Úsáidimid "liath" ag tagairt do "grey" i gcás gruaige. Tá cúpla úsáid eile dhó: an bainne a cuirtear i muga tae, tugaimid "liathadh" air sin.

Úsáidimid an focal "glas" ag tagairt do "grey" i gcás éadaigh nó ainmhithe: geansaí glas, capall glas, cat glas, agus mar sin de. Is mó úsáid eile a bhainimid as an bhfocal "glas". Aimsir chruaidh fhuar is ea "aimsir ghlas". Duine saonta is ea "duine glas".

A Dhonncha,

Very useful. But in Rabhlaí Rabhlaí there is following rhyme:

A hAon, A Dó, A Trí
Lucha beaga buí
Ag ithe píosa cáise
I ngan ghios d'fhear an tighe.

Cat mór, LIATH
Tháinig sé isteach.
Cad a dhein na lucha?
Rithedar amach!

So how can be word "liath" explained in this rhyme? Is the cat so old, that its fur turned grey even it wasn't grey before?

Toisc nach n-oireann "glas" don rím!

Scríobh Dennis:

quote:

Úsáidimid an focal "glas" ag tagairt do "grey" i gcás éadaigh nó ainmhithe:

Ach, i Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla (Ó Dónaill):

Éadach liath = pale grey cloth.

What makes it pale? Looks like normal grey cloth to me.

Ceist maith a O'Dwyer!

Maybe "éadach glas" means "grey cloth," as Dennis indicates above and "éadach liath" means "PALE grey cloth," as Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla indicates.

Just a guess.

Student of colours,

Your version makes a lot of sense. Otherwise there is no reconciliation between féar glas and cat glas. I do strongly believe that Irish were not kind of Daltonians, who could not tell apart colours. There should be logic in equating colour of grass and cat. A light grey cat is obviously not similar to grass color. Whereas "grey" horse is - I swear. They look almost green, at least of very dark variety.

(Message edited by Róman on June 08, 2006)

A Róman,

Oh, I see now what you've discovered. That is, the cat in your poem above could be pale grey in colour versus just plain grey in colour.

By the way, cé hiad Daltonians?

Roman, do you know anything about Dmitri Hrapof's "Geiriadur" project at www.cymraeg.ru? He may be very interested in your work.

A mhic léinne dáthanna,

Daltonian - afflicted with colour blindness. Usually dark blue looks back to them. Actually my classmate said he saw green and red colour the same. Kind of scary, knowing that he is driving and concealed this fact while getting driving licence!

A Pheadair,

You mean "foclóir" project? So how can I help? My dictionary is Irish-Lithuanian. And after all this trouble of translating and finding equivalents, I don't feel like making a Russian copy. And besides translating Lithuanian expression of the type "more or less", "at least" into Russian is extremely difficult as words don't match each other. Maximum I can do - look through the word list he has to correct mistakes if there are such.

I think he would not mind an Irish-Lithuanian either. There are currently 5 different language databases, he can cope with one more. One can replenish or correct it any time when on-line or just by sending Dmitri a new pack of words. Then, I began writing a text on the Connemara Irish pronunciation for his project since I promised to do one. It'd be cool to have a Munster (or just Muskerry, dunno what you'd prefer) version of the same thing, as I'm sure you are able to do it.

Re Glas versus Liath or Uaithne.

I think Glas is a quality which may affect colour - young, natural, fresh: whereas liath or uaithne are shades of colour.

This explains "féar glas" (green) and "glas na gcaorach" (grey)

A Pheadair,

How can anyone correct the stuff on-line?

Re pronunciation - there huge differences between An Rinn and rest of Munster. So there cannot be a single "Munster" pronunciation. Corca Dhuibhne and Múcraí are very close, like Garmna and Cois Fharraige, but still there are some issues. I think making a well-defined Múscraí stuff is better.

quote:

How can anyone correct the stuff on-line?

Ara, you have your own password that allows you to make corrections and stuff. So ;)?? If you want to participate, I think, we can discuss the details it in private.

Le meas, Peter

More data points for liath/pale:

liath- [réimír]
i leith na léithe nó na báine (liathchorcra, liathdhearg, liathdhorcha, liathghorm, liathghlas, ....


liathuisce [ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
meascán uisce is bainne.