mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2006 (January-February) » Archive through February 06, 2006 » Present participle/gerund of the copula? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Polannach
Member
Username: Polannach

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I suppose that expression such as "Being at home" I can express in Irish by something like: "ag beith sa bhaile" (am I wrong?), but what about "being someone else" ???, how would you translate it?

GRMA

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 2898
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is duine eile anois mé. I am another person now

Is that what you mean?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Polannach
Member
Username: Polannach

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Well, not exactly, 'cause "Is duine eile anois mé" you can translate also as "I am another person now" or something close to that, is it possible to translate it more literally? Is there something like gerund or present participle of the copula in Irish? you have "to work" and "working"; "to do" and "doing"; even "to be" and "being", is it possible in Irish?
I hope you understand what I mean...
GRMA

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dennis
Member
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 921
Registered: 02-2005


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The copula does not have a verbal noun. In another thread, Max (a linguist) just asserted that the copula is not a verb. You two should discuss this! :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Polannach
Member
Username: Polannach

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks Dennis! Hmmm, the copula is really unusual "thing" then :-). I have one more question, but I think I'll begin a new thread...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You will have to accept the fact that this meaning cannot be expressed in Irish unless it is anchored at a subject.

That's why the film Being John Malkovich was never dubbed into Irish!

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fear_na_mbróg
Member
Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 980
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd translate "Being John Malkovich" something like:

Bheith ina John Malkovich

Fáilte Roimh Cheartúcháin

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hm...

I'd rather reword it completely. I'm no native speaker but it seems to me that it isn't usual in Irish for non-finite clauses like this to stand on their own as complete utterances, especially not if the verb involved is . You kind of feel as if something is missing.

How about Trí shúile John Malkovich? Literally Through the eyes of....

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Polannach
Member
Username: Polannach

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 01:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

OK, so the copula has to be always anchored to a subject and "is duine eile (anois) mé" is possible here, but what if I wrote "táim i mo dhuine eile", would it be correct too? and if yes, could I also write it using impersonal form "táthar"?, thus the sentence would look like "táthar i... (and I have no idea which possessive adjective I should put here) ...duine eile". What do you think about it :-)? Is it possible to create such a sentence? Which possessive adjective can the impersonal form of the verb be linked to?
And if it's not clear :-), my aim is to build a sentence of impresonal meaning... just something like "being John Malkovich" :-)
GRMA

(Message edited by polannach on January 31, 2006)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc_Ó_g
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 139
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 01:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd go with ' An Bheith John Malkovich' or "Ag bheith John Malkovich".
My dictionary marks 'beith' as being used also philosophically. Though this usage may still be a bit too literal as a true Irish translation. Hmmm no. And the use of '.....mar JM' says pretending to be...
Perhaps 'Ag bheith ann tríd John Malkovich'.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Maidhc_Ó_g
Member
Username: Maidhc_Ó_g

Post Number: 140
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 01:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aw, there's the rub. Are you being someone else as an impersonator/imposter or are you within their body and mind sharing their experiences? (with or without interfering)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Polannach
Member
Username: Polannach

Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 01:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Does it metter? I didn't want to specify that...

Czasem słińce, czasem deszcz...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 02:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The movie is about you within their body and mind sharing their experiences, both with and without interfering.

And as for táthar i mo/do/... John Malkovich, that sounds quite creative, but unconventional, too. So is it possible to create such a sentence? Perhaps. Purely syntactically there is nothing wrong with it but I'm pretty sure that most fluent Irish speakers would wonder what the hell it's supposed to mean is this was a movie title.

Is mise,
Michal Boleslav Mechura

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 04:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You can't put "ag" before "bheith".

Tír Chonaill abú!



©Daltaí na Gaeilge