Since teine or tine is a feminine noun why is there no lenition in these compounds or word phrases given in Dineen (p. 1200): teine bruithneoige, a makeshift fire for cooking potatoes, etc.; teine caor, a raging fire, lightning; teine saighneain, id.; teine tanaidhe, phosphorescent light seen in marshy places or on the skins and teats of animals; teine sidhe, marsh-fire (will o' the wisp)?

Go raibh maith agaibh

Danny

Probably because the words following "tine" here are not adjectives, they are nouns in the genitive case.

When you have a feminine noun qualified by an adjective, the adjective must be lenited, as you know.

But when you have a feminine noun qualified by another noun, the second noun may or may not be lenited depending on a lot of things. The exact rules governing this are actually quite a controversial subject in Irish grammar, even today. The experts disagree.

More information, if you're interested:
http://mbm.dotnet11.hostbasket.com/textmachine/Default.aspx?PageID=83

That web page you mentioned gives:

ag insint scéil ghrinn

I thought that was a no no. Should be:

ag insint scéal greann

Sílim go bhfuil an ceart agat, a fhear na mbrog, ar feadh m'eolais.

A noun usually needs to be in the genitive case when it's the object of a verbal noun.

>I thought that was a no no. Should be:

>ag insint scéal greann

Should be "ag insint scéal grinn". Scéal grinn = a funny story (greann is always in the genitive in that phrase).

Fear na mBróg is right, of course (with the suggested corrections). It could be either ag insint scéil ghrinn or ag insint scéal grinn, depending on how strictly one chooses to interpret the rules.

The question is whether you should put scéal grinn in the genitive after ag insint or not. In the strictest possible interpretation of the rules you should, this is exactly the type of situation that requires the genitive case. There is however a tendency to avoid the genitive case after verbal nouns when what follows is an indefinite noun plus an adjective. According to this, scéal grinn does not need to be put in the genitive. I believe this principle has even been codified in some grammar books. It's part of a trend to avoid the genitive case when things get "complicated".

So I decided to interpret the rules very strictly when I was writing that, so what? :-) I tend to do that when I'm writing - not when I'm speaking though. Oh, you should hear me speak: one grammatical heresy after another!

On a related note, cuirim fáilte roimh aiseolas den chineál seo i gcónaí. Má fheiceann éinne aon rud ar an láithreán sin atá as bealach, nó a d'fhéadfadh a bheith as bealach, cuirigí scéala chugam, le bhur dtoil.

quote:

one grammatical heresy after another

Meas tú? Táimse damnaithe go híochtar ifreann mar sin...

Thaithin teideal an bhlag liom....ach ní féidir liom teacht ar anois...
(Better life through grammar nó rud éigin mar sin - Bhí sé ag http://multilingual.wordpress.com/2006/01/11/the-copula/ ach deir sé liom anois gur scrios tú é?)

go raibh maith agaibh
danny

Michal Boleslav Mechura, a chara:

That link was especially helpful

Teine caor!