Hi,
I was thinking on what sort of books could be usefully put to mp3?

Well I don't have any short ones like Lughaidh used, but I do have a kids book called 'Bunlitriu'. I could read out section samples of it tonight and send the recordings to any one willing to temporarily host it someone, so it can be critiqued. That way, I don't waste (everyone's) time by doing out what may not eb up to scratch.

So if Clionadh or Pooka would like to temporarily host it, I can send something in to either of ye tomorrow, and lets see what happens.

Robert, a chara,

There's a now-out-of-print set of children's readers that my beginners enjoy; very short stories followed by Q&A to test comprehension. There were several books to the series and each had 25-30 stories. The book one stories were only one paragraph each; have a look at http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/ and see if this might be the sort of thing you'd like to record, as they're quite short. If so, I'll make some space at gaeilge.org for your audio files.

Le meas,
Cionaodh

Cionadh,
I've made a (rather noisy I'm afraid) mp3 of the first lesson, mostly to satisfy people curiosity about my voice!

Let me know what to do with it, please.

If I can find some way of recording without the hiss, I'll try to do more.

Also, If you can recommend some (free, please) encoding tools and rates - this one is 128 kb/s.

beir bua

Aonghus

Cionaodh,
thanks for the offer. I've downloaded them and will produce at least 10,
Robert

Scríobh Aonghus:

>>I've made a (rather noisy I'm afraid) mp3 of the
>>first lesson, mostly to satisfy people curiosity
>>about my voice!
>>
>>Let me know what to do with it, please.

GRMA, a Aonghuis! I'll e-mail you the FTP info privately.

>>Also, If you can recommend some (free, please)
>>encoding tools and rates - this one is 128 kb/s.

Mac or PC?
I'm a Mac user; OS9 has a sound recorder as part of the basic OS. I assume OSX does as well, but I rarely use OSX and couldn't tell you definitively.
If you use a PC, perhaps Lughaidh or Séamas can make a recommendation.

Scríobh Robert:

>>thanks for the offer. I've downloaded them
>>and will produce at least 10

GRMA, a Robert! When you're ready, e-mail me at and I'll send you the FTP info.

Le meas,
Cionaodh

Is PC atá agam, faraor! Ach tá rud éigin faighte agam, agus chuaigh mé níos gaire don mic. Níl sé baileach chomh glórach anois.

Aonghus,

There's a free, easy-to-use, open-source encoder called "winLAME" available at:

http://winlame.sourceforge.net/features.php

I've used it and it seems to work great.

There is also a free, open-source recorder called "Audacity" at

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

I've used it for voice recordings and it's very good. Unfortunately it's a bit difficult to get it to make an mp3 (You have to compile an encoder from source code.) However, you can make a wav with it and then just use winLAME to convert the file to an mp3.

Scríobh Aonghus:

>>I've made a (rather noisy I'm afraid) mp3 of the
>>first lesson, mostly to satisfy people curiosity
>>about my voice!

D'éist mé leis, a Aonghuis -- ar fheabhas!

Although it's only one story thus far, for anyone wanting a sample, here's the lesson text:
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-01L.pdf
and here's Aonghus' reading of lesson one's little story:
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-01l.mp3

As for recording quality, a Aonghuis, I thought the only thing it really needed was a bit more volume. Maith thú!

A chairde;

Robert has uploaded some audio files now as well. He's done recordings for the first ten stories; here are links to the lesson pages:
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-01L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-02L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-03L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-04L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-05L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-06L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-07L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-08L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-09L.pdf
http://www.gaeilge.org/AIA1/AIA1-10L.pdf

and here are Robert's recordings:
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter1.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter2.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter3.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter4.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter5.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter6.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter7.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter8.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter9.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/chapter10.mp3

GRMA, a Robert! I think learners will enjoy them.

Besides chatting about all things Gaeilge here in the Daltaí discussion forums, I think that what we've begun doing here and what some members have done elsewhere -- that is, making resources available to learners -- is one of the most fruitful by-products of our conversations. GRMMA to all of you participating.

As we start trying out various recordings like this, it might be interesting to hear about what sort of equipment & software each of you are using to do voice recording, and any recommendations you might have along those lines.

Le meas,
Cionaodh

Cionaodh,
thanks very much!

Aaron & Cionaodh,
I used audacity to record the samples and then had to use another program (which I will get the name of as I don't have it here) to convert it to mp3. Audacity did not have the lame.dll so my version would not do the conversion. Perhaps the link above has a newer version with said file.

I used a five euro microphone from a pounds cheaper shop to record. It was handheld, and I attempted to keep it the same distance from the mouth. My voice amplitude levels varied though. I also found that when someone was in the hall, my voice would unconsciously lower to a more whisper-like form. I would register a slight discomfort at the time of recording if I thought one of the english speakers in the house could hear me, but this was not apparent till I played back the recording, so there are a number of variables that get in the way.

As for the content, you will find that bh and mh are both /w/, and the same for /w'/. No /v'/ or /v/ (Munster) was used, I beleive.

The voiced velar fricative I ahve noticed is not consistant, nor is /x/. While these would be expected to fluctuate, I don;t know if they would do so so radically in any native as per the contexts given. Remember this pronounciation was arrived at by visual aids only -no native input was involved as it was designed to provide training to anyone who has not got direct native assistance. We will see it it is sucessful.

For others who are thinking of recording: you may find that your speech is not just as you hear it as if the brain adjusts it to keep it equal so that each /Y/ and /x/ for example, sounds the same to yourself every time.

Maith sibh 'leaids!
a Aonghuis, if you click the volume icon in the task bar at the bottom right of your screen you can change the microphone settings - Depending on the mic you may need to add boost from the advanced tab - (you indeed have a very pleasant voice a chara)

Bhain mé triail as. Tá ceacht a dó agus a trí as leabhar a haon seolta agam anois.

A Robert, with the Gentium font, you can type in phonetics with the real IPA symbols. Although you can't do it directly here if you don't have Keyman, you can taype in phonetics on Winword and cut and paste your phonetic text here.

e.g. [ɣ], [χ] .

Scríobh Aonghus:

>>Bhain mé triail as. Tá ceacht a dó agus
>>a trí as leabhar a haon seolta agam anois.

An-dheas, a Aonghuis! Tá an láine níos fearr anois.

A chairde eile, seo iad na nascanna nua:
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-02L.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-03L.mp3

When I listen to them off the web, the opening second or so is gone. Do I need to leave space at the start, or do other people hear this? (For lesson 2 above, "An Bricfeasta" is missing - but is is to be heard on the original on my machine).

Lughaidh,
I will try to fix the issues, only that I use the internet at college which will not let me change the fonts. If I can get the tech heads to fix it I will.

May I also ask for any critique you have of my pronounciation? I feel there are numerous things that need to be fixed. I won't be truculent bout any bad responses, in fact I welcome them so I can tailor the instructions needed to conform with any modificaitons that any of the fluent speakers here feel should be implimented.

I'm after listening to your first 4 recordings, Robert. That is what I can say about them:

- your r's are very good
- your broad ch and gh/dh are too strong, they should be lighter than that.
- your slender ch often sound as slender c's (you say le céile instead of le chéile)
- -io- is /o/ in "thriomaigh", not /i/ [ˈhɼɔmʷi]
- féin is pronounced /heːn´/ in almost all Ireland...
- you pronounce -fea- as /fja/ although there isn't such y-glide in Irish in that case (there is with feo- and fiú-): bricfeasta is [ˈb´ɼɪcɸ´ast̪ˠə], you say [-fjastə] (there's no y-glide after the f), fear is [ɸ´aɾ], you say [ɸjaːɾ].
- you mix up the different kinds of L, mainly /l/ with /l'/ and /l'/ with /L'/. You pronounce mála as if it were máile /ma:l´ə/, céile as if it were céille /ceːL´ə/
- your /u/-sounds are like [y]'s (German ü, French u)... are you from Northern Ireland? :-)
- you pronounce is ea like /seː/, it should be /(i)s´a/
- you pronounce sorcas as /sorəxəs/; it is /sorkəs/
- you pronounce béal as /bjal/; should be /b´eːl/ (precisely [b´eːəlˠ] in Donegal).
- sometimes you pronounce broad c as broad ch. I had noticed that with Northern Ireland learners.

Anyway, your recordings are good: you make efforts so that you don't make the common mistakes that most English speakers do :-) (especially for r's and broad ch's and gh's). Maith thú!

Lughaidh,
thanks for the critique. I will incorporate these into future recordings. I was aware of some of the mistakes, but since they are obviously habitual did not act to fix them untill they were independantly analysed.

As for why I did is ea like I did thru the recording, I dont know as I would tend to pronounce it /(i)s'@/, but i'll modify it to /(i)s'a/

Sor(@)cas is probably an overgeneraliation from native Irish words which have an epinthetic vowel inside medial clusters

Béal was a one off mistake

"sometimes you pronounce broad c as broad ch. I had noticed that with Northern Ireland learners"

It is something I have done for a long time, and it will need feedback to fix as just noticing it myself or been told by others has failed to do it by itself

As for /l/ and /l'/ is the differecne not in the lips, rounded or neutral in the first, spread in the latter? i am aware of a personal difficulty i articualting them when in words.

The /u/ was an idea I had to make verbal forms ending in /adh/, like verbal nouns, more explicit from nouns in cases where the final unstressed vowel could be variable. I liked the sound of it (in myself) but then it got over generalised and now I dont like it. I'm from the border region (Leitrim) which might exlain why some of the attempts at gaelic donegal blas ended up more northern than hoped, such as /u/ umlaut for final /bh/.

Sor(@)cas is probably an overgeneraliation from native Irish words which have an epinthetic vowel inside medial clusters

Ok. The epenthetic /ə/ occurs in rg, lg, but not in rc, lc.

As for /l/ and /l'/ is the differecne not in the lips, rounded or neutral in the first, spread in the latter? i am aware of a personal difficulty i articualting them when in words.

The difference between /l/ and /l'/ is that your tongue doesn't make the same movement. Quite hard to explain; /l/ is velarised, as in England English "will", /l'/ isn't, as in England English "to live". But some English speakers don't make any difference between these sounds so I don't know if it helps you...

The /u/ was an idea I had to make verbal forms ending in /adh/, like verbal nouns, more explicit from nouns in cases where the final unstressed vowel could be variable. I liked the sound of it (in myself) but then it got over generalised and now I dont like it.

Actually that Ulster oo-sound doesn't exist in Irish but it did, I think, in Antrim Irish before it died out.

A Aonghus, seo na fadhbannaí a chluinim ar do chuid taifeadtaí:

- you pronounce the r's as in English.
- problem of -igh verbal endings before pronouns (we already talked about that): have to pronounce /ə/ in that case.
- some of your t's sound as the English ones
- siad pronounced /s´iːd/, I'm not sure one can pronounce it like that. Better /s´iəd/, or /s´əd/ in fast speech.
- some of your slender t's and d's are pronounced as in Donegal (almost English ch), other ones as in Munster...
- you pronounce cúigear with a diphthong for -úi- (should be /kuːg´ər/, Donegal /kig´ar/ [ˈkʷɪɟaɾ]), and with no palatal g.

"- siad pronounced /s´i:d/, I'm not sure one can pronounce it like that."

One can. That's one pronunciation of it in Iorras — a case of "under-differentiation" of the diphthong iэ from the long vowel i: as in síoda.

"Better /s´iəd/"

Yup.

I don't think Aonghus speaks Iorras' Irish anyway ;-)

A chairde,

Our friend Aaron has run Aonghus' audio files through a programme and has increased the volume & clarified the sound somewhat. Have a listen:
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-01L-v.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-02L-v.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-03L-v.mp3

Aaron will stop in later and describe what he used to tweak these files.

GRMA, a Aaroin!

A Aonghuis, an mbeidh comhaid nua ag teacht?

Beidh, ach táim gnóthach go dtí an Nollaig.

Aonghus,
as for the clipping -I found that with some free mp3 converters they would only do 30 seconds or 25 so you got shortened off at the end. Did that occur 2 U?

Scríobh Aonghus:
When I listen to them off the web, the opening second or so is gone. Do I need to leave space at the start, or do other people hear this? (For lesson 2 above, "An Bricfeasta" is missing - but is is to be heard on the original on my machine).

I rarely listen to audio files that way, as I have a dial-up connexion. I download them first & then listen. No clipping when heard that way.

When said clipping, I mean the actual having been clipped at the end. Since we seem to ahve been using the same programs I think other people might have got the same issues, so I suggested the possibility

The missing part is at the start. I'll try to download & check - it may have more to do with buffering.

The endings seem fine on them as well on my downloaded copies. The "clipping" Aonghus is hearing is probably, as he surmised, a buffering problem.

On audio CDs, my CD burner software (Toast) requires a 2 second lead time for the first track; subsequent tracks don't seem to matter. Probably also a buffering issue.

"you mix up the different kinds of L, mainly /l/ with /l'/ and /l'/ with /L'/. You pronounce mála as if it were máile /ma:l´ə/, céile as if it were céille /ceːL´ə/"

Some practice of "Gael agus Gall, Gaeil agus Gaill" is in order then

quote:

The missing part is at the start. I'll try to download & check - it may have more to do with buffering.

It worked fine for me.

Have people tried the new versions of the files??

I raised the volume on the files by opening them in Audacity and normalizing them (under "effects" in the menu). This brings the volume level into a normal range. There was a volume spike in the beginning, which looked like the spike from a mic on/off switch being turned on. This was interfering with the normalizing process, since the normalizer takes an average volume measurement, and the spike was very loud compared to Aonghus's voice. So I clipped the spike off (edited out about .3 seconds) and then normalized it, and the volume went way up.

Boosting the volume also increased the volume of any hiss that was there, but when I ran it through the Winlame mp3 encoder I've mentioned, the encoder cleaned it up nicely.

I encoded the files at different mp3 quality settings. Can anyone tell the difference in sound quality? One is the "standard" setting, the others are the highest quality setting. The smallest file is the lower quality one. I'm curious to know if it makes any difference.

Sin é. I normalised them, but didn't notice the spike.

I've uploaded a new version of 1, and 4 and 5.

I hope the volume is better.

An-dheas, a Aonghuis! The volume level is even better than the versions edited by Aaron, so whatever you're doing now is working brilliantly.

Direct links to the audio files for those who'd rather not go looking for them:

http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-01L.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-04L.mp3
http://aia.gaeilge.org/audiofiles/aia1-05L.mp3

A chairde,

While we await future installments of the little AIA stories from Aonghus & Robert, I thought ye might like to know that Séamas & Conn are no longer the only podcasters in Irish -- Oistín has joined the fray:
http://oistin.blogspot.com/2005/12/test.html

I had intended to do more over Christmas, but táim múchta le slaghdán, which would make for muffled recordings.

Tá súil agam go mbeidh biseach ort go luath, a Aonghuis!

Oistín will have to suffice until you recover.