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Max
Member Username: Max
Post Number: 192 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 02:59 pm: |
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About "tarbh" and "marbh", Ó Siadhail gives the pronunciation [ta:ru:] and [ma:ru:]. I wonder: What is the pronunciation of these 2 words in the other dialects? And for Dennis: what was their pronunciation in old Irish? |
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Pádraig
Member Username: Pádraig
Post Number: 282 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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An Foclóir Póca puts a V sound on the end of both these words. I believe the FP is the standardized pronunciation. So your dead bull comes out as taruv maruv. |
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Dennis
Member Username: Dennis
Post Number: 456 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 05:29 pm: |
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Old Irish apparently didn't have the epenthetic vowel (an guta cúnta) that pops up in the modern language, so: tarb /tarb/ marb /marb/ b = voiced bilabial fricative (Tá súil agam go ndúirt mé i gceart é!) I believe that you'll hear /mar@b/ in Munster and parts of Conamara. The funny thing that happens in Munster is that the plural "marbha" is pronounced "marú". The treatment in Scottish Gaelic is interesting: /m[ara]b/, where the unit in square brackets is conceptually a single syllable with equal stress on both vowels, at least for poetic purposes. Here the guta cúnta normally echoes the vowel that comes before it. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 896 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 07:39 pm: |
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Donegal: /taru/ and /maru/. The final -v sound is only to be heard in Munster, I think. It is a short oo-sound elsewhere. |
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 343 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:42 pm: |
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"Final non-palatal bh after an epenthetic vowel is vocalised to u: or less commonly retained as w, e.g. marbh ma:ru:, ma:rэw, banbh ba:Nu:, ba:Nэw." — Tomás de Bhaldraithe, "The Irish of Cois Fhairrge, Co. Galway" __________________________________________________ "Epenthetic vowels occurred at the intermediate stage of the development of tarbh and such words — e.g. balbh balu:, garbh garu:, banbh banu:, searbh ∫aru: — thus tarbh → *tarabh → tarú. So too an epenthetic vowel developed between r and gh at an intermediate stage of the evolution of dorgha, thus dorgha → doragha → *dorú → drú." — Éamonn Mhac an Fhailigh, "The Irish of Erris, Co. Mayo" (Message edited by Peadar Ó Gríofa on October 15, 2005) Peadar Ó Gríofa
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Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Member Username: Peadar_Ó_gríofa
Post Number: 344 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 09:54 pm: |
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"It is a short oo-sound elsewhere." Short in Achill as it is in Donegal, but long elsewhere in Connaught. That is, "half-long," like any other unstressed "long" vowel. Peadar Ó Gríofa
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