Take the Irish word "saol". In Foclóir Póca, the pocket dictionary, the pronunciation for the "ao" sound is given as "i:" as the long "e" sound as in the English word "see". Many have told me that they pronounce this as the long sound for "a" as in the English word "say". In what parts of the Irish speaking world is each used? Are they both correct? Is one way preferred over the other?

GRMA,

Mícheál

I'm glad you've asked this question a Mhíchíl.

I've always said 'seel' myself but I'm hearing 'sale' alot for 'Saol' - In the genitive 'saoil' is then 'Seel' because of 'aoi'. I would like to know how most people here say 'ao' sound.

And while we're at it, how is it aspirated (pronounced) in "shaol?"

Normally, ao is pronounced

- like an ay-sound (without any y-glide at the end) in Munster

- like a long /i/ sound (ee-sound) in Connaught and parts of Donegal

- like an unrounded u-sound in other parts of Donegal (I heard it in Ranafast, by older people in Gweedore, and Cloghaneely, and I think it's to be found in the Blue Stack Mountains as well, central Donegal); it sounds a bit like a German ü or French u sound, but pronounced at the back of the mouth.

ao
[e:] (as in "say") in Munster
[i:] (as in "see") in Connacht/Ulster

aoi
[i:] everywhere

ao was originally a:
[ш:] i.e. a close back unrounded vowel, an unrounded (!) u(oo)-Sound which is still used in parts of Ulster (and Scotland).

Lars

and the shaol?

shaol [hi:l]/[he:l] ("heel"/"hail")

Lars

Grma as sin Lughaidh agus Lars.

Thanks for your responses. It seems that my manner of learning and speaking Irish is a mixture of many dialects. I hope this doesn’t make me a Jack of all Irish and a master of none, to paraphrase the English idiom on doing things. I wonder if people switch their pronunciation style based on the preferred preferences in the place they are at the time they are speaking.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Mícheál

Apparently not, a Mhicheál -- As I listen to BBC Northern Ireland, I'm aware of many different pronunciations even within conversations. I don't think pronunciation is what differentiates a dialect.

Also, I've been in the South (North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Alabama) for 20 years or more, and I wouldn't think of trying to speak anything but Yankee. (Connecticut or otherwise.)

"And while we're at it, how is it aspirated (pronounced) in "shaol?""

Padraig,
just to clarify (that is if you read thru Akerbeltz) 'aspiration' is like breathing 'h', and in Scots Gaelic is often found before plosive consonants (p, t, k, etc), that is, pre-aspiration. Therefore, 'mac' (son) is like 'mahc', if you follow.

Irish does not have this feature. Sh is pronounced 'h' and one talks about lenition http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lenition

It would seem someone mixed up the orthographic convention with the phone /h/ or 'h' represents (the Chistian Brothers, perhaps)/

Functionally it means the same thing to use 'aspiration' to refer to lenition, as its only a word, but it will cause confusion if one is comparing scots gaelic to irish where two different features will come into play.

Aspiration is a puff of breath **after** a plosive consonant, as in the english word puff (P + breath of air + uff). Does Irish have any aspirated consonants?

>I don't think pronunciation is what differentiates a >dialect.

It is one of the features that differentiate a dialect. In Ireland, dialects are differentiated by pronounciation, morphology (mainly conjugations), some facts of syntax, and vocabulary.

>Aspiration is a puff of breath **after** a plosive >consonant, as in the english word puff (P + breath of >air + uff). Does Irish have any aspirated consonants?

No, except in the case you get a consonant followed by an /h/ sound (for morphological reasons), ex: leag > future tense leagfaidh /L'ak-hi/, etc, because you add an ending that has the /h/ sound, you see.

But you won't get any initial /kh/, /ph/, /th/ as in English cake, put, tide, etc in native Irish.

Huh.

I've always thought "aoi" was "ee" and "ao" was sort of an "ah-oo" sound--

So does this mean that .. say ... Aontas, or Aontroim are pronounced EEN-tas and EEn-trohm, as opposed to AH-OHN-tas and AH-OHN-troim?

"Ao" is absolutely never pronounced "ah-oh" in Irish, in any dialect, at any period of its history.

If you want to have it simple, choose the quite central and understandable pronounciation of that sound, so /i:/ (long ee-sound) everytime you have ao or aoi in a word. This pronounciation is that of Connaught and parts of Donegal; undoubtedly it's the most common pronounciation for ao and aoi, for the number of speakers pronouncing like that.


Now, I wanted to add something about the pronounciation of "ao" in Donegal Irish:
there are some words in which "ao" is pronounced as in Munster (so, an "ay"-sound):

Aontroim, aon, craobh... there are some others (that don't come to my mind right now).

Aontroim /e:Ntrim'/
aon /e:n/
craobh /kre:w/

"Ao" is absolutely never pronounced "ah-oh" in Irish, in any dialect, at any period of its history.

Yeah. Sorry. I haven't had an auditory teacher in a long while. And even then it wasn't for long.

"Does Irish have any aspirated consonants?"

Yes! Aspiration of the voiceless stops is an allophonic feature dependent on their phonetic environment. The c in capall, caitheamh, cian, an bhfacaidh and íoc is (strongly) aspirated; the c in scapadh, scathamh, scian, i bhfascadh and iasc is not.

>Yes! Aspiration of the voiceless stops is an allophonic >feature dependent on their phonetic environment. The c >in capall, caitheamh, cian, an bhfacaidh and íoc is >(strongly) aspirated;

Where have you heard that? What you describe that is just like in English...