Ireland's attempts to protect the Irish language have been uniquely ineffective. I would suggest this: try to create Donegal and Galway as two Irish-speaking counties, and don't dissipate your effort across the whole country. All schools in those counties should become fully bilingual, starting with playgroups, then infant schools (ages 5-7), then junior schools (7-11) and then secondary schools (11-16). The compulsory bilingual education would then gradually ripple up until all children took their exams at 16 in those two counties in Irish only, with no option to take them in English. Then exams at 18 would be in Irish only, then finally all courses at the University of Galway would be in Irish only. All signs in those two counties would be in Irish only. Government employment would be for Irish speakers only - as everyone leaving school would be fluent, this would be no problem. In government departments in those areas, Irish would be the sole language of administration, used in meetings, documents, emails and letters. The TG4 channel should be 100% in Irish, with strictly not a single word of Irish, and supplemented by another 24 hour channel. 2 competing daily newspapers would be available and a range of weeklies. Tax rebates would be available for companies in those two counties that operated an Irish-only internal language policy. Eventually, those 2 counties would emerge as fully Irish speaking. This policy would be aided by junking the "official pronunciation" and "official grammar" of Irish, and instead creating separate Donegal and Galway standards. Why doesn't the Irish government do what I have suggested? Do they have a secret policy to kill off the Irish language?

That's the problem, isn't it? Everyone has these magnificent ideas to make Irish the first, official, and national language of Ireland that everyone speaks, but a lot of the people who care about the language do not have the ability and power to bring to affect the drastic changes that need to be made to save the language. I'd like to know: is the goverment really anti-Irish, or just extremely passive and lazy about teaching it?

I suspect Irish nationalist issues, of which the Irish language can be considered to be one, only exist for politicians to use when they want to "play the green card". So they need to give the impression of trying to don something. Those same politicans don't really give two hoots!

Djwebb > and what about Munster? There are Gaeltachtaí there too. I don't want Munster dialect to die.

Well, I said Galway and Ulster because they are larger Gaeltachts, but really, yes, they should be using the education system to EXPAND the Gaeltachtaí. How about the whole of Kerry? I have ancestors from Cork, so I don't want the Cork Irish to die out, but Cork is a very big county...

(Message edited by djwebb2002 on September 10, 2005)

I like West Cork Irish, it's so odd :-D

I like your thinking Djwebb, I would just wonder if it might be a bit over-drastic. The more I think though, the more I like it. It would need to be done to Kerry as well though and something perhaps less minor done to Waterford, Cork and Mayo and maybe Meath. It might end up creating two countries though, both of which can't understand the other. Although, on the other hand, that'll force the English-speakers to learn Irish, making similar efforts in other countries easier. Good job Djwebb, now all we have to do is find a politician with enough power to implement it.

Maidir le Gaeilge Iar-Chorcaigh, bhí mé ag léamh clár plé idirlíne as Gaeilge ar an tsuíomh 'people's republic of cork' agus bhí siad ag iarradh briathar a dhéanamh as 'google'. Deir duine 'do ghooglas', agus cheartaigh duine eile é, agus an freagra a fhuair sé ná 'níl sé ana-stringent, like'. Cheap mé go raibh sé go híontach ar fad.

The feasibility of making Galway's educational system completely Irish-language occurred to me when I saw that 25% of county Galway's population spoke Irish. The policy is obvious, isn't it?

that'd be great as a pilot program to eventually be applied to the whole country over the course of the next 50-100 years.

"25% of county Galway's population spoke Irish." Wow! Ní raibh a fhios agam é sin!

The thing about it was we had leaders - Legends like De Valera who had the right ideas and policies. They were not implemented. If they were i think Ireland would be far more Gaelic today.

Dont forget that some people hate the language and wont want it "forced upon them." Then you have a lack of Gaeilgeoir teachers.. The craic with foreigners in general and a huge amount of indifference towards gaeilge.
Gaeilge needs drastic measures. You should email An t-Aire na Gaeltachta and ask him what he thinks. Seriously.
I like your way of thinking.
Why not find out what all of the political parties policies are in relation to Gaeilge.. And see have they been implemented??

I think Djwebb's idea is the only way to save Irish as a community language, but I doubt it could be implemented. People would probably react strongly against it.

By the way, the county in which the highest percentage claims to speak Irish is county Clare. It's the only county in which a majority claims to speak Irish.

"Legends like De Valera"

Check out the Irish Press saga -still paying 600,000 euro a year in rent, monies to the De Valera family...are you aware of how he screwed Irish-americans out of money?

Legend?

A bona fide criminal, actually.

And no, service to a country is not a debt that can be paid back by laissez-faire fraud

"the county in which the highest percentage claims to speak Irish is county Clare"

Lies...must be in the genetics down there...

Domhnall, see http://www.galway.ie/bfcg/bfcg_atlases/atlas_p133.htm, which gives a lot of figures relating to Galway Irish speakers. 19.1% of the county's population spoke Irish daily in 1996, but there were also many others who could speak Irish, but never did. However, even in the Conamara, only 44% speak Irish on a daily basis...

Is gar mhac le Dev é Éamon Ó Cuív. Tugtar Dev Óg ar thiar.

Focail laidir coirpeach, a Robert. Cleachtas gnó amhrasach, ceart go leor - ach níor bhris sé aon dlí agus é ag mealladh airgead ó gael mheiriceá.

Fear sleamhan glic ab ea.

My great-grandfather was one of Dev's best friends. They fought side by side in 1916. I have done absolutely intensive amount of research into this man and i must conclude that yes he is a legend.
Who knew this - When he setup Fianna Fáil the restoration of Gaeilge as the spoken language of Eire was one of the parties 4main objectives??!?? I'd say it still is.
*Eh my arse*

It was Dev who made it the first offical language.
"Os í an Ghaeilge an teanga náisiúnta, is í an príomhtheanga oifigiúil í"
Nobody's perfect! ;)
Himself and O'Cuív are the only two FF'ers i'd vote for.
Both republicans. Both had/have the right ideas faoi athbheochan na Gaeilge.

At least now Americans have wised up and give their money to a decent party ;)

At least now Americans have wised up and give their money to a decent party ;)

Domhnall: Indeed. A party the "naoidhean (ar) cum bu/bai/ salach saobh of Dublin 4 try to teilg the slab on. like they do the teanga.

Dere's no moll óir in the Irish language an' moll óir is the pota óir at the end of most politicans' bealach...
'S cam bogha báistí.

And I was, of course, playing Dev's advocate....

I have just started to read Language Policy and Social Reproduction Ireland 1893 - 1993 by Pádraig Ó Riagáin. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1997. Oxford Studies in Language Contact. Does anyone who has read this book have comments that they would like to share? Thanks.

Fear sleamhan glic ab ea.

Indeed. Grafado/ir sliogach foirfe.

As you know, Dev was born in Joisey (New Jersey) and was both hybrid-Irish and "paiste na gre/ine (the sun's baby, an illeg. child.) Not as well known is the fact that Dev's Irish American contemporary, and the Ard Ri/ of the Tammnany Ward E/ilitheoira, Al Smith, was half Italian.

But at end of day, "sleamhan" means "treacherous" as well as "smooth and slippery." Dev "had been around the bealach" and worked both sides of the street when it came to his own tiach (tiag) & po/ca.

A Dhancais1 a chara, I'm afraid i don't understand your posts..
What's with the constant use of " / " ?

Is cuma liom faoi a thuistí - séard atá tábhachtach ná an méid a rinne sé ar son na hEireann - gach gné de.
Yes - smooth and slippery. Compliment or insult!? I'd say the way he used it made it quite a talent. Being like that gets you far in the political world. Trust me - Is Polaiteoir mé!! ;)

Mícheál, I shall being my study of Gaeilge Fheidhmeach (the Gaeltacht, language development, and the general socio-economic irish language area.) this month.. I'd be very interested if you came across anything worthwhile in that book.. Go raibh míle.

i think the / is because he doesn't know how to type a fada

A Dhomhnaill,

Language Policy and Social Reproduction Ireland 1893 - 1993 by Pádraig Ó Riagáin. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1997. Oxford Studies in Language Contact.

I have typed below for you the Table of Contents in case this could help you in your studies. I've included the page references to give an idea as to how many pages are within each section. There are many charts in the book, but there is no list of them. The Oxford Studies in Language Contact includes works on many languages throughout the world.

Mícheál



Contents

Note on Nomenclature ….. xiv

Abbreviations ….. xv

Note on the Tables ….. xv

Part I: Historical and Theoretical Background .. 1

1. The Development of Irish Language Policy 1893 – 1993 .. 3
2. Theoretical Perspectives in Irish Research .. 28

Part II: The Irish Language in Irish-Speaking Areas .. 47

3. Irish-Speaking Areas 1926 – 1986: An Overview .. 49
4. Language Maintenance and language Shift as Strategies of Social Reproduction ….. 79

Part III: The Irish Language in English-Speaking Areas .. 143

5. An Overview of Bilingualism 1926 – 1993 .. 145
6. Public Attitudes towards Irish and Irish Language Policies .. 168
7. Irish Language Production and Reproduction in English-Speaking Areas .. 193
8. Social Class and the Irish Language .. 216
9. Irish-Speaking Networks in Urban Areas .. 240

Part IV: The Irish Language: A Sociological Assessment .. 267

10. Revival or Survival? .. 269

References .. 284

Index .. 293

Go raibh míle míle maith agat
Táim cinnte go mbeidh sé sin thar a bheith oiriúnach!