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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2005 (May-June) » Archive through May 20, 2005 » A silly question « Previous Next »

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Bean_rua
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Username: Bean_rua

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I am wondering how one would say "toothless granny"? Is it "mamó mantach", or "mantach mamó", or something else?
I am still very much a beginner, as I've said, and I don't understand how Irish adjectives are applied, if they aren't just used "directly".
(The reason I'm asking is a long story and is sort of a "you had to be there" kind of a thing...)

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Asarlaí
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Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The word order would be the other way round.
Mamó is feminine so adjective would be lenited.

Mamó mhantach

There's probably a more idiomatic way of saying it though.

(Message edited by asarlaí on May 12, 2005)

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Seán a' Chaipín
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Posted From: 81.139.12.209
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Howabout:

mantachán seanmhná

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Jax
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.221.250
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Howabout:

seanmheirdreach

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1402
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That would be abusive. (Meirdreach is a harlot)

I like Séan a Chaipín's version.

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Jax
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 159.134.221.250
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

mantachán seanmheirdreach?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1403
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tuige go leanann tú le masla nuair a chuirtear ar do shúile gur masla atá ann. Is ionann meirdreach agus striapach. (Ós rud é gurbh cosúil nach eol duit cén sort rud é harlot)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=harlot

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Jax
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Posted From: 159.134.221.250
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

or sorry, I thought it was like harlequin

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Bean_rua
Member
Username: Bean_rua

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

So, what does putting the "án" on the end do to the word "mantach"? Does "mantachán seanmhná" translate roughly to "toothless old woman"?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1406
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 05:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

mantach - gapped (adjective), particularly of teeth

mantachán - adding án turns it into a noun - "gapped one"

mantachán seanmhná - "gapped/toothless one who is an old woman" or more literally "gapped one of an old woman"

So, yes, "mantachán seanmhná" translates roughly to "toothless old woman"?

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Asarlaí
Member
Username: Asarlaí

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 06:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Grma Aonghus,
So, is it common to turn adjectives into nouns in this way?
And if the adjective is slender or ends with a vowel?

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 540
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Not it's not common. Mostly the noun is identical to the adjective:

noun: éireannach
adjective: éireannach

noun: homaighnéasach
adjective: homaighnéasach

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1408
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There are a long list of these kinds of "án" nouns applied to people. Sometimes the (e)ach ending is dropped.(amaideach, amadán springs to mind) I'm not sure what happens when the adjective ends slender or with a vowel, I'll have a look.

An Béal Beo has several pages of names to call people, most of which are formed in this way!

Interestingly, the Irish name for Wicklow, Cill Mhantáin, came about when one of St Patrick's followers had his tooth knocked out by the wild Irish and was thereafter known as Mantán! (Another form of mantachán).

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I have a vague feeling that "án" denotes a definite person, and "ach" a member of a class/group

i. Éireannach (Irish person), but cancrán (Crank).

Perhaps because in the first case "duine" is implied.

But this is vague so don't build on it.



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