I know that this whole IPA System always starts a big debate/conversation but I only have a simple question. Or rather, I have a few simple questions. First off, is IPA the system that Learning Irish uses when its showing you the vocabulary and how to pronounce it? And then second of all, if so, is there some sort of resource online where I could say, type in a word, i.e. Gaeilge, and it would give me the IPA pronounciation of it? If anyone could help me, I would appreciate it.

(Message edited by Natalie on April 20, 2005)

I'm all for that! However, if such a site exists and it uses the IPA, then we have the problem of learning the IPA. With the exception of G.B. Shaw, I don't think anyone ever really learned it.

Natalie,

I think the answer to your first question is yes. That is, "Learning Irish" uses the IPA system. There may be some deviations or simplifications from the IPA system, but they haven't affected me from understanding the basics of IPA. I first became familiar with the IPA system when I started studying "Learning Irish," and have since discovered that it's an excellent way to convey the correct pronunciation of words. My daughter, who goes to college with aspiring actors, has told me how important IPA is to her college mates when they have to learn different accents.

Of course, there are those who prefer to use English spelling to represent pronunciations, but I usually find this approach to be quite limited, especially in regard to the gh, ch and dh sounds in Irish.

Le meas,

Dáithí

Ok, well thank you very much. I was just wondering if that's what I was seeing when I opened my Learning Irish book! Thanks!

discovered that it's an excellent way to convey the correct pronunciation of words.

It is the only adequate way to do so in writing, and the only simple way. Each dialect study uses only the symbols necessary for the sound system in question — an appropriately "modified IPA" — and they are always clearly explained.

"With the exception of G.B. Shaw, I don't think anyone ever really learned it."

:-) Not quite right. The thing is, the ortographies of most European languages are very close to the IPA, so the average European only has to learn the few symbols that are different from his own language and then go on reading. It's just that English has such an absurd ortography ;-) Seriously, I've never heard any non-native English speaker complain about the IPA - on the other hand, every second English speaker seems to think it is something mysterious and very hard about it. IPA was designed to be as easy and adequate as possible, and that is just what it is.

(Message edited by jonas on April 20, 2005)

Well I don't know about all the other English speakers but I kinda like having something to go off of when I'm trying to pronounce the words out of Learning Irish. The book came with a little sheet that explains the symbols but I find it generally comprehensive now. Of course, if you threw me a paragraph of funky swirls and other things supposed to come from the system...well...let's just say you'd confuse me. Anyway, just to clear up my second question. Is there then, no place that I can get the IPA pronunciation of Irish words (preferrably online) whenever I need a certain word's pronunciation?

Not that I know of. If you buy the cassettes, every vocabulary list - including every word in the course - is read by a native speaker, so you get the exact pronunciation.

Natalie,

Although I don't know of any websites that have IPA based pronunciations, I have found the Focloir Scoile dictionary to be quite handy in learning how to pronounce words. The Focloir Scoile dictionary contains IPA pronunciations of all Irish words. The dictionary is based on the Official Standard of Irish, so you'll find differences between it and "Learning Irish." There's also Focloir Poca, the pocket version of "Focloir Scoile" that also contains IPA pronunciations.

I know it's not what you're were asking for, but I thought I'd mention these dictionaries in case you haven't seen them yet.

Le meas,

Dáithí

I should qualify my above remark about the Focloir Scoile containing IPA pronunciations of all Irish words. I meant to say "all Irish words contained in the dictionary" and not all Irish words that exist in the universe. :)

How is "slí" pronounced when eclipsed as it is with the definite article? "an tslí" It seems easier to articulate without the eclipse.

Thank you very much for clarifying my question!

an tslí is pronounced as "an tlí" [э t'l'i:] (a bit like "uch lee") in Donegal.

A Lughaid, a chara,
Go raibh maith agat.

P.