I don't know much about the Irish language, but I have fallen in love with this song that I heard on Tears of Stone by the Rankin Family, and I want to be able to sing it. I have found the lyrics, and listening to the song and reading the lyrics, I can see that I have no hope of being able to sing it properly unless I get some help with the phonetic pronunciation of them. If anyone has the time and is inclined to help me in this way, know that it would be very exciting to me and I would be so grateful to be able to sing this song. Thanks in advance for any help given.

Jimmy = well, kinda like...Jimmy.

Mo = muh sort of like the first sylable in "Mother"

Mhile = veal-uh like baby cow meat with an "uh" on the end.

Stór = as in grocery, dime or corner drug...store.

Jimmy muh veal-uh store

Jimmy my darling

There'll be others who will lambast my efforts and respond with various heiroglyphic symbols associated with the IPA system so, take them all in stride. I've got you pretty darn close to the correct pronunciation using words and sounds that are comfortable for you. If you understand IPA, the others will get you spot on with their electronic whirls and swirls.

Le meas,

James

James,
That's cool, I was actually wondering what it meant, but what I'd actually like help with is the whole song. I will copy it down here, and if you have time and inclination, maybe you can do some of it for me as well. Thanks for the help so far.

Bliain an taca seo dimigh uaim run mo chleibh
Ni thiocfaidh se abhaile go dtabharfaidh se cursa an tsaoil
Nuair chifead e rithead le fuinneamh ro-ard ina chomhair
agus chludod le mil e, is e Jimmy mo mhile stor.

Bionn mo mhathair is mathair ag bearradh is ag bruion liom fein
taim giobaithe piocaithe, ciapaithe, craite de mshaol
Thugas taitneamh don duine ud dob aille sno
agus chuaigh se ar bord loinge, is e Jimmy mo mhile stor

Rachadsa chun coille agus caithfead ann an chuid eile de mshoal
san ait na beidh einne ag eisteacht le ceol na n-ean
ag bun an chrainn chaorthainn mar a bhfasann ann fear go leor
ag tabhart taitnamh don duine ud is e Jimmy mo mhile stor

Thanks again.

It's one of those songs you can identify with by the emotion in it, even before you know what it means, isn't it?

Lyrics are a bit different here, but same general idea, except he gets conditionally covered in honey in Irish, but only gets laurel leaves in English . . .

Where in Fla are you located Vivienne?

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/8998/jimmy_mo_mhile_stor.html


Jimmy Mo Mhíle Stór

Bliain an taca seo d'imigh mo ghrá uaim féin,
Ní thiocfaidh sé abhaile go dtuga sé cúrsa an tsaoil,
Nuair a fheicead mo ghile rithfead le fuinneamh na chóir,
Agus clúdódh le mil é, is é Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

My love he's gone from me, no fairer than him can be found,
He'll never return until he course the wide world around.
When I'll see my love coming I'll crown him with laurel all o'er,
He's the neatest of lovers called Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

Bíonn mo mháthair is m'athair go síoraí ag bruíon liom féin,
Dá rá gur lem' boige do mealladh mé i dtús mo shaoil,
Mise dá fhulaingt go dubhach is ag sileadh na ndeor
Le cumann dom chumann, is é Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

My father and mother they never can give me ease
Since first my true love went from me to the seas,
I bear it with patience, shedding and sighing full sore,
lamenting the fate of Jimmy, mo mhíle stór.

Rachadh go bun coille agus caithfeadh ann deireadh mo shaoil,
an ball ná labharfaidh aoinne eile, ach ceol na n-éan,
Ball ná sileann aon bhile ann, geimhreadh ná fómhar,
Ó chuaigh ar bord loinge uaim Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

I'll go to the greenwood and spend there all of my time,
where no man or mortal can ever disturb my mind,
Beneath the green willow I'll lament and sigh full sore,
And I'll wait on my pillow for Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

James, I am near Gainesville. And you are so kind to give me that translation. What do you mean when you say that it is honey that he gets crowned with in Irish but laurel in English? Do you mean that the word means two things? I don't understand, please explain. Actually, though, what I am most interested in is a phonetic translation, one that gives the sounds made by each word so that I can sing it. I checked the library online today and plan to go get some books and cds teaching Gaelic so that I can get a better understanding, but right now I have none, only what I can pick up by looking at patterns, etc., so any help you can give, and you've already done a lot. Thanks again.

nilim cinnte i dtaobh do aistriucan, a cailindoll. ce go bhfuil nach aon saineoileacht mise, nil se soleir domsa go mbeabh an dha pairt is ionann. ca bhfuair tu i? ni mor duit cuarmach le do foinse, is docha.

Cailindoll, I see on looking back that I thanked the wrong person in my last post. Please accept my appologies and my thanks for your help. It was late, I was tired, etc., etc. Thanks again very much.

Who sings that song? I've heard one version of "Jimmy mo mhíle stór" on the album "Eist", that song is sung by Frances Black, and despite her lovely voice, her pronounciation is really bad.

An tseanphort agat arís, a Lughaidh.

Pé scéal é, is Dolores Keane is minice a chuala me ag canadh an leagan macarónach.

I should also point out that the whole point of Éist and Éist 2 was to get popular singers who don't usually (or ever) sing in Irish to sing Irish songs - to show it could be done.

But I wouldn't expect anyone to expect pure Gaeltacht pronunciation from those singers....

I heard it by The Rankin Family on The Chieftains "Tears of Stone" CD. Aonghus, have you heard it by more than one person? If so, who do you think pronounces it the most correctly? I want to sing it, and I'd like to pronounce it right myself.

I don't focus too much on pronunciation when I'm listening to a song, unless the pronunciation is jarringly bad.

I'm not familiar with the Rankin Family, but you would be better off getting a recording by someone Irish, I think - preferably someone who sings frequently/only in Irish.

Dolores Keane springs to mind.

The translation Cailindoll gave is not really a translation of the lyrics. The general idea is the same in both, but that would go for many other similar songs as well. There are huge differences between the Irish version and the English one, definitely not a translation.

Bliain an taca seo d'imigh mo ghrá uaim féin,
Ní thiocfaidh sé abhaile go dtuga sé cúrsa an tsaoil,
Nuair a fheicead mo ghile rithfead le fuinneamh na chóir,
Agus clúdódh le mil é, is é Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

My love he's gone from me, no fairer than him can be found,
He'll never return until he course the wide world around.
When I'll see my love coming I'll crown him with laurel all o'er,

He's the neatest of lovers called Jimmy mo mhíle stór.

it is many the year that my love has been gone from me now,
he will not come back with all thats happening in life,
when i would see my brightness running with energy as he should
covered with sweetness is he, jimmy my sweet love.

Thats my effort at the start of the song.

Breacban, the bottom part is your reinterpretation of the earlier one? Yes, I'd much rather have a real interpretation of what the Irish lyrics are actually saying than an English prettied up one. Jonas, can you give me an idea of what the song is actually saying then? Like I said, my new plan is to learn some Gaelic myself, but I've been visiting my grandbaby down in Miami for the last few days, and haven't had a chance to get to the library yet. Thanks, you guys, for your input.

Maybe the library has some Dolores Keane, too, its a pretty progressive library. I've been wondering who to listen to that would be authentic, thanks, Aonghus.

hi vivienne,

That was my attempt at translating the text. Often when the gaelic language was dying out in an area, seconadary english verses were written for the benefit of those without irish who were listening to a singer. these secondary verses were often not the same as the gaelic. there is an element of he who looks shall find going on here. anyone who has gone and learnt gaelic will allways want to translate the meaning for themselves and not have someone else do it for you. this means that you have come into a circle of knowing. one last thing is gaelic defies literal translation into english, each word in gaelic can mean several things depending on the context. I would learn irish first and then approach singing gaelic songs. its akin to trying to fly a helicopter solo after one flying lesson.

>An tseanphort agat arís, a Lughaidh.

An seanphort (focal firinscneach)


>But I wouldn't expect anyone to expect pure Gaeltacht pronunciation from those singers....

They should do their best at least...

>I don't focus too much on pronunciation when I'm listening to a song, unless the pronunciation is jarringly bad.

I do, because my ears are hurt by bad-pronounced Irish, and most of the time i even don't understand/know the words when they're bad pronounced, then i need to have a look at the booklet of the CD in order to know what they're talking about...

>I'm not familiar with the Rankin Family, but you would be better off getting a recording by someone Irish, I think - preferably someone who sings frequently/only in Irish.

Someone who's a native speaker or someone who pronounces like a native speaker.

quote:

They should do their best at least...

They did. The whole point of the Éist CDs was to get people who don't speak Irish to sing in Irish to show the hurdle to learning it is lower than many people think.

There are native speakers on the CD as well - the difference is easy to hear... (Máire Bhreatnach, Máiréad Ní Mhaonaigh, Maighréad Ní Dhomhnaill...)

But it is both unrealistic and undesirable to forbid anybody who is not a native speaker to speak/sing Irish in public.

I appreciate that you would prefer to only hear good native Irish - so do I.

And I would not recommend to anyone to learn Irish from the singing of Frances Black.

But it is useful and positive to have people who are not known as native speakers speaking/singing it in public.


I would like to see you make some positive contributions to how Irish can be revived rather than constantly sniping at those who try, because their pronunciation offends your over refined ear.

I just hope that learners don't try to learn pronounciation from these singers' -- how would they know that some who are on the CD are natives, and not the other ones? Nothin is written on the booklet about that.
And some would have claimed they speak fluently, but it doesn't mean that they speak well and that their pronounciation is reliable.
So, I just fear that people learn from them.

I think the songs will draw learners in. The more serious ones (more serious about learning) will find better resources as time goes on.

You won't be able to learn much of a language from songs only. Or have you met anyone who learnt French from the singing of Edith Piaf?

Edith Piaf?

god forbid.... have you heard how she pronounces "r" : the old parisian way...

(this is humour)

So was my comment - or at least exaggeration.

the real point being: have you ever met anyone who actually liked listening to her songs....

Oui. Moi! From time to time, not as a steady diet. I quite like cabaret type songs, although some Edith Piaf songs - the "rouse the people" type - I dislike.

Also, she was the first Francophone singer who occurred to me.

(Message edited by aonghus on May 09, 2005)