a Chaoimhín,
Tá ceist agam ort. Actually, it might be a feature enhancement. Is it, or would it, be possible for people to download small self recorded sound bites into postings? I am thinking that alot of the native speakers on this board (Aonghus mar shampla) are underutilized when it comes to pronunciation questions. After all, they are the ones we should be striving to speak like. It would greatly spice up this site if we had this ability!!
From my own experience, just working on reading/writing skills can be dull......
Any thoughts?
Discussion begins!!
-Canuck
p.s. I'm not saying that you need to start posting sound files Aonghus :-) I've just got a dream of setting up some sort of a verbal learning environment where everyone could partake.

I'd rely more on Seosamh O Muirí than on Aonghas for pronounciation and grammar (at least in written Irish grammar, as he himself says). To my mind, Seosamh O Muirí is the best Irish speaker here, he never makes mistakes and his Irish is brilliant :)

You're missing the point. I would like to see this site morph into an online verbal/written learning environment to mimic a real life situation where you'd be talking with anyone who has Irish.
Let's not deviate this topic to focus on who has better Irish. That is just plain silly.
-Canuck

Referring to Aonghus as a "native speaker" whom "we should be striving to speak like" is as silly as silly can be.

Well, Aonghus has said many times that he is a native speaker. If you open your eyes and get beyond your grade 2 reading comprehension skills, you will notice that I said "they are the ones we should be striving to speak like". Note that very important word "they". Ohhh very powerful isn't it??
I've got news for you, the internet is changing! Feel free to live in the stone ages trying to perfect your accent by reading a book full of pronunciation symbols. The rest of the world is moving on buddy.
-Canuck

A Canuck:

While I do understand the point you are trying to make, I'm afraid the tone you are using in trying to make it makes me ashamed to admit that I am a fellow "Canuck". I'm afraid that, if you were using sarcasm as an attempt at humour it was lost on me. I must admit that I've never met a native Canuck down east that would have taken such an aggressive attitude when making a proposal for change to a group of established players. As I've said previously, I am very much a beginner here and appreciate immensely the assistance that the particpants here willingly offer. If the addition of sound bites is the way of the future, this group will move there when the time is right and will do so with the generosity that has always marked their participation. Are you familiar with the expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."? How about "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?

quote:

If the addition of sound bites is the way of the future, this group will move there when the time is right and will do so with the generosity that has always marked their participation.

And that's exactly what Canuck is trying to do. Things get done 'cause people get them gone. We can sit around for twenty years without mentioning adding "sound bites" to the forum, and guess what -- in twenty years time we won't have sound bites! Canuck came up with the idea and he has suggested it.

quote:

If the addition of sound bites is the way of the future, this group will move there when the time is right and will do so with the generosity that has always marked their participation. Are you familiar with the expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."? How about "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?

Really now I have no idea what kind of attitude you think we possess here. The people that give assitance here, they're not doing anything laborious, they just like to share knowledge and may take pride in being able to help others in ways that they would like to be helped. When some-one asks for an explanation I don't think "Oh Jesus, there's another one to add to my To Do list", I just try give an explanation and help out, simply because I like too -- I even find myself trying to be the first to respond to the question, it's like a game!
If some of you are afraid in any way of making suggestions or of asking too many questions, because you feel it's not your place to do so, cop on! This is a friendly site, full of enthusiasts who want to teach and learn so that we all can conversate fluently and eloquently and even colloquially in Irish!

I speak for myself when I say that I welcome any and all suggestions and I even request that you ask more questions about things you're not sure about, because I like answering questions and I'll be racing and competing against Aonghus, Lugaidh, Lúcas, Seosamh to give the most enlightening answer! Mise a bheidh mar bhuaiteoir!

We have the ability to upload files, sound or otherwise, to the board, but that function is currently disabled.

There would be some issues to consider/overcome - one major consideration would be disk space - but the idea is intriguing.

I'll discuss it with Liam and get back to you all.

Caoimhín

Maith thú, a Fhir.

I would have to admit a more self-centered reason for responding to questions. Sometimes, I do not know the answer, but I want to see if I can figure it out. Posting the answer here is like taking a test. If I am right, then I share an insight, and, if I am wrong I know you or someone else will correct me. Then I learn something. Either way, I gain.

Sometimes I think I know the answer, but I want to see if I can explain it to others. If I can not explain it to the satisfaction of the reasonable questioner, then I do not really know the answer. I need to learn it better. This too is a very valuable gain for me.

A Fear_na_mbróg:

I guess it is difficult with only the written word to go by to understand the intent in someone's words however, my comments above were more by way of saying "play nice". I found it offensive when Canuck referred to the response of Lughaidh inferring he had "grade 2 reading comprehension skills" and then being what I thought was sarcastic in saying "Note that very important word "they". Ohhh very powerful isn't it".

I think the suggestion was a good one - it was the delivery of the subsequent Canuck postings that perhaps I was overly sensitive to. I have always found people on this site open to suggestions. I also find that some people have a nicer way of phrasing things than others.

Uploading files also carries a risk of harmful stuff being uploaded which would affect users of the board. Technically it is something to be very careful of.

I wonder is there anyway of putting a sound recorder on the website? But that might cause bandwidth issues.

Perhaps it would be possible to limit upload to defined sound formats, say mp3, and check server side whether it is a valid mp3 bitstream before accepting it?

a Chaoimhín,
Thank-you very much for investigating this. I think that it will be a big plus to this site to have this feature. Pronunciation aside, the ability to have verbal conversations in slow motion would be an amazing learning tool. We could even play games like trying to put the voiced words into text and vice versa.
The storage issues would be a concern I admit. As well, I would probably limit the feature to registered users.

I have been a constant reader of this site since 2001 and have found it to be a huge benefit to my learning. I am fortunate to have an excellent teacher whom I meet with weekly which is why I rarely ask questions. As well, I am able to interact with native speakers in my workplace. However, the contributions of people like Aonghus, Lugaidh, Lúcas, Seosamh, Fear_na_mbróg, Jonas.. etc. make this site exceptional and they have expanded my knowledge and kept me focused.

I hope that my small suggestion above will help those people who are audio learners. Also, I think it will help those who have no interaction with native speakers to progress more rapidly. Let's create a virtual Gaeltacht!

-Canuck

Odriscoll,
I made no such comments to Lughaidh, whom I consider to have excellent English. The comment was made to an anonymous poster named "I'm Missing the Point Too." who appeared to be picking a fight by suggesting that Aonghus wasn't: A) someone who was either a native speaker or, B)someone we should model our speech after.

Your comment regarding the shame you feel about being a fellow Canadian makes me laugh. You realise that there are 32 million people in this country right? Have you heard the comments come out of my Premiers mouth lately (Danny Williams)? We are not a country of impotent wimps.

-Canuck

I'm not saying that this discussion is headed for a flame war, but lets keep the topic open by staying on topic.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Caoimhín

What a great idea, Canuck! I know that my speaking abilities would be greatly improved if I could hear more people talking in Irish. My fellow learners and I are trying to speak with each other more and I am trying to leave out all my "ums" in between my Irish words.

At this point in my learning, I am not so concerned about minor differences in sound. To me, everyone may say words in my own language of English slightly differently, but I still understand them based on the context and so forth. Major differences like in the example of bo and beo or naofa (as nayfa or neefa), however, do need to be taken into account.

One of my favorite expressions at this point in my studies is "Abair é go mall é, mas é do thoil é" (Say it slowly, please). Therefore, uploaded sound files might be the way to begin this process of the virtual Daltaí Gaeltacht.

Mícheál

If it's possible, it would of course be great. No more IPA explanations from my part would be needed, and those explanations using English spelling (and always getting it wrong) would be history as well. Not that there would no be other problems - some sites on the Internet claiming to explain Irish pronunciation with sound-files still has a phonetic inventory that is English, but I still think it would be a great step forward.