э hiэrNэ d´iэ Na:rw uφa:sэx эN i:ç i: | э l´ehid´э N´i:r he:d´ as e:r l´e: kĩβ´n´э k´iN´ э din´э bэ ∫in´ er´ э mal´э | β´i: ∫e: nэ xalэm k´u:n´i∫ l´e: γa: la: rĩβ´э ∫in´ | N´i: xoro:xi: rib´э gэ dэ γruэg´ | Nuэr´ э'du:rt´ '∫ã'wã:rt´i:n´ gэ ro din´эN er´ magu: э te∫i:φ э ji:nu: φi: | han´ik´ ∫e: ŋ ku:r эnэ xrãp´ wõ:rэ wi: t´axt эN´iэr l´e∫ эN´ unru: til´э gi∫ N´i: aki ∫e: t´axt ãβli: эr´ĩэβ e: Nax m´eh n sder´im´ nsNэ sa:li: eg´э

∫a:n a: ru:a:n´ э ∫g´r´i:β

Go hiontach ar fad, tabhair dúinn ceann eile! Tá ceist agam, áfach, (agus canúnt eile agamsa): nílim cinnte go dtuigim i gceart an t-'ä' atá sa theacs san agat.

Alienate everyone else, that's a great way to foster a friendly atmosphere! : P

Seans go mbeidh orm an stuif úd a fhoghlaim fós..

A Thiarna Dia, narbh uafásach an ? a léithéid ...

táim ró fhalsa níos mó a dhéanamh...

1. Níl 'ä' ann, a Jonas, ach 'ã' ('a' agus '~' os a chionn) -- 'a' srónach.

2. Herr Schumann, dies ist für dich. Es ist sehr freundlich. Du wirst dich gar nicht fremd fühlen (I don't speak German; I'm just having fun pretending):
http://english.glendale.cc.ca.us/gaelic.html

uni:∫
A Aonghuis,

Na:rw uφa:sэx эN i:ç i:
nárbh' uathbhásach an oidhche í!
nárbh uafásach an oíche í!

1. Níl 'ä' ann, a Jonas, ach 'ã' ('a' agus '~' os a chionn) -- 'a' srónach

Dar ndóigh, cím é anois. Mar a tá a fhios agat, tá "ä" againn as Sualainnis agus is dócha gurb é sin a réasún ná faca an difríocht.

э hiэrNэ d´iэ Na:rw uφa:sэx эN i:ç i: | э l´ehid´э N´i:r he:d´ as e:r l´e: kĩβ´n´э k´iN´ э din´э bэ ∫in´ er´ э mal´э | β´i: ∫e: nэ xalэm k´u:n´i∫ l´e: γa: la: rĩβ´э ∫in´ | N´i: xoro:xi: rib´э gэ dэ γruэg´ | Nuэr´ э'du:rt´ '∫ã'wã:rt´i:n´ gэ ro din´эN er´ magu: э te∫i:φ э ji:nu: φi: | han´ik´ ∫e: ŋ ku:r эnэ xrãp´ wõ:rэ wi: t´axt эN´iэr l´e∫ эN´ unru: til´э gi∫ N´i: aki ∫e: t´axt ãβli: эr´ĩэβ e: Nax m´eh n sder´im´ nsNэ sa:li: eg´э

∫a:n a: ru:a:n´ э ∫g´r´i:β

Peadar,
I am intrigued and would like to know more about your new symbols and what they stand for, sound wise. What piece of text is it a phonetic form of?

Knowns
э= schwa
x
ŋ
γ

Level 1: Clear enough
N = velarised alveolar nasal [Ni:] naoi, k´e:Nэ [céadna]
N´=voiced palatal nasal? [э’N´iэr] aniar
∫ =Voiceless alveolar fricative? [∫o:l] seól
β =vóta [βo:tэ]

Level 2: Needs clarification
ç= Voiceless palatal fricative? (IPA) or [x´o:l] cheol (foclóir póca). Context suggest the latter.

Level 3: Somewhat unclear
w from English or broad /bh/ as in your example or voiced velarised lip-rounded fricative or…(there are others; but you know which one you meant)

Level 4 : Muddled
Φ= voicless bilabial fricative?
β´ what does this represent ?
j as in the English /j/ or voiced palatal fricative/ palato-velar fricative [ijiэ]

Level 5: And as for these rude boys…
õ
õ:
ã
ã:
ĩ

Finally, what word was this pre-phoneticisation?
nsNэ

I would guess that [nsNэ] stands for "ins na", or "sna" in the standard.

The vowels at level five are all nasalised.

GRMA as an "oíche" a shoilsiú dhom a Pheadair.

Ach táim ró fhalsa faoi láthair dul i ngleic le cód nua.

>What piece of text is it a phonetic form of?<

The beginning of "Pádhraic Mháire Bhán, nó An Gol agus an Gáire," by Seán Ó Ruadháin.

x = voiceless velar fricative = broad "ch."
ŋ = velar nasal as in English "tongue."
γ = voiced velar fricative = initial broad "dh" or "gh."

N = (tense, long, unlenited) velarized DENTAL nasal [Ni:] naoi, [k´e:Nэ] céadna, as opposed to the (lax, short or lenited) velarized alveolar nasal [n] in [mэ na:r´э] mo náire, [dunэ] dona.

>N´= voiced palatal nasal? [э'N´iэr] aniar<

Yup, as opposed to the palatalized alveolar nasal n´ as in [in´i:n] iníon.

∫ =Voiceless PALATO-alveolar fricative [∫o:l] seol

> ç= Voiceless palatal fricative? (IPA) or [x´o:l] cheol (foclóir póca). Context suggests the latter.<

They're one and the same. It's NOT [x] followed by [j], but a single, purely palatal sound, which can be prolonged as long as you can keep exhaling.

w = initial, semivocalic bh- or mh-. [э wodi:] a bhodaigh. In [э wã:hir´] a mháthair, both the [w] and the [a:] are nasalized.

β = voiced, velarized bilabial fricative: [э βra:hir´] a bhráthair, [a:βэr] ábhar; nasalized in [fõ:βэr] fómhar, [sãβru:] samhradh, [Lã:β] lámh, [mэ lã:βi:] mo lámha.

Φ= voiceless bilabial fricative?

Yup. As for blowing out a candle.

β´ what does this represent ?

The voiced, palatalized bilabial fricative: [γa: βl´iэn´] dhá bhliain, [seβ´ir´] saibhir; nasalized in [g´ĩβ´r´u:] geimhreadh, [mэ γa: lã:β´] mo dhá láimh, [bэ β´ĩn´ik´] ba mhinic, [rĩβ´э] roimhe.

j = high front semivowel, as opposed to...

γ´ = voiced palatal fricative / palato-velar fricative in [э γ´r´im´] a ghreim.

Yup, õ / õ: / ã / ã: / ĩ = nasalized o / ó / a / á / i

Yup, nsNэ = ins na

Does Ó Siadhail's Learning Irish contain this type of information as to the realisation of the phonemes of Irish ?
Of course, including phonetic script in manuals destined to people who learn on their own would do nothing but confuse things in most cases, but access to such information is invaluable for those acquainted with even the rudiments of phonetics.
Are you a linguist too, like Lughaidh, a Pheadair?

Yes and no (to the first question, that is). Learning Irish does contain every single word in the "normal" adjusted IPA for Irish dialects. It does not make all the distinctions made in Peadar's text. On average, I would say that the symbols in Learning Irish (and most descriptions of Irish dialects) are easier to understand for laymen.

Peadar,
thanks very much for the time you spent on writing out the answer. Clarity is a good thing!

The nasalisation is so often very much ignored, vowels specifically and consonants generally, so I'm glad to see it been tagged. Many of us in the West are very flat and nasal in English and it would be natural to be as nasal in Irish as allowable, consonants and vowels and all.

ogi∫ N´i:rβ´ e: ∫in´ э t´e:N tuэr эwa:n´ | β΄i: Nэ φi:L´a:in´ эnэ sgati: эr φud Nэ wa:Lti: le: t´r´i: la: rĩβ´э ∫in´ mэr β´et∫iэd э t´eçu: ã: warig´э | ogэs kõhэru: d´i: b´a:r Na: k´axtэr oku: эn´ '∫an'ro:ŋ glas Nax wakэs han a:N La: 'm´i:'ortu:nэx u:di: эr ba:çu: Luŋ βĩt´il´ β´i: ∫e: γa: ça:n´t´ he:n´ hart le: kladэx | e: b´r´ahnu: wэjэ ∫d´ax эr Nэ t´iφ´i: mэr β´et∫e: magu: | '∫ã'xlag´эN er´ э β´i: L´iэ le: i:∫ эgэs kum er´ gэ ro ∫e: xэ k´r´i:Nэ le: solu:

Bhí dhá dhearmad ansin atá ceartaithe agam anois:
__________

э hiэrNэ d´iэ Na:rw uφa:sэx эN i:ç i: | э l´ehid´э N´i:r he:d´ as e:r l´e: kĩβ´n´э k´iN´ э din´э bэ ∫in´ er´ э mal´э | β´i: ∫e: nэ xalэm k´u:n´i∫ l´e: γa: la: rĩβ´э ∫in´ | N´i: xoro:xi: rib´э gэ dэ γruэg´ | Nuэr´ э'du:rt´ '∫ã'wã:rt´i:n´ gэ ro din´эN er´ magu: э te∫i:φ э ji:nu: φi: | han´ik´ ∫e: ŋ ku:r эnэ xrãp´ wõ:rэ wi: t´axt эN´iэr l´e∫ эN´ unru: til´э gi∫ N´i: aki ∫e: t´axt ãβli: эr´ĩэβ e: Nax m´eh n sder´im´ nsNэ sa:li: eg´э | ogi∫ N´i:rβ´ e: ∫in´ э t´e:N tuэr эwa:n´ | β΄i: Nэ φi:L´a:n´ эnэ sgati: эr φud Nэ wa:Lti: l´e: t´r´i: la: rĩβ´э ∫in´ mэr β´et∫iэd э t´eçu: ã: warig´э | ogэs kõhэru: d´i: b´a:r Na: k´axtэr oku: эn´ '∫an'ro:ŋ glas Nax wakэs han a:N La: 'm´i:'ortu:nэx u:di: эr ba:çu: Luŋ βĩt´il´ β´i: ∫e: γa: ça:n´t´ he:n´ hart le: kladэx | e: b´r´ahnu: wэjэ ∫d´ax эr Nэ t´iφ´i: mэr β´et∫e: magu: | '∫ã'xlag´эN er´ э β´i: L´iэ l´e: i:∫ эgэs kum er´ gэ ro ∫e: xэ k´r´i:Nэ l´e: solu:

(Message edited by Peadar Ó Gríofa on February 11, 2005)

An bhfuil téip éigint agat nó an gcuireann tú féin IPA ar an scéal? Má tá téip agat, cé hé atá á léamh?

(Message edited by Lughaidh on February 11, 2005)

na ∫i:l’эN ∫iβ’ go m’et’ ∫a iNtэ g’r’aNwэr dæ ∫k’r’i:φэs mid’ il’ig’ iNs э No:riar°t mor’ ∫in’ эn∫o ? ah s φ’i:r æ: ræ:t’ go do:khэt’ ∫a kod’ wãjç amэ, er’ э drohu.эj

N´i:l´ э l´ehid´э gэ te:p´ aN fari:r ax эs m´i∫
эŋ´ k´e: l´e:jэns эN´ L´эuэr mэr ∫in´ L´e:r mэr d´o:lim´ m´e: n xanu:N´t´ a:N´ L´эur э ∫g´r´i:β e:mэN эk эN al´i:

I wrote most of this message nine days ago, so I guess it’s about time to go ahead and post it:

Ó Siadhail's transcription in "Learning Irish" covers the basic phonology of Cois Fhairrge, without going too far into variant pronunciations or distinctions that are no longer consistently made in that dialect area. For example, he gives [saurэ] samhradh, [g´i:w´r´э] geimhreadh, although some speakers may still pronounce them with nasalized vowels [sãurэ], [g´ĩ:w´r´э] or even with a nasal obstruent [samrэ], [g´i:m´r´э].

In “The Irish of Erris, Co. Mayo,” Éamonn Mhac an Fhailigh transcribed those words as [sãwru:], [g´ĩvr´u:], but explained that the [w] and the [v] in such words are both nasalized bilabial fricatives. The dialect has the diphthong [эu], as in [rэuэ] rogha, [tэuэ] togha, [L´эur] or [L´эuэr] leabhar, [m´эuir´] meabhair, [эuN´] or [эuiN´] abhainn; but it does not have [au].

Mhac an Fhailigh’s book, like some of the other dialect studies, makes no mention at all of labiodental fricatives, because there are none in the dialect. The labial fricatives are bilabial in all positions. Using β, β΄, φ and φ΄ to represent them draws attention to this fact, as well as to the fact that -amh- is not a diphthong, but a vowel and a consonant.

>Are you a linguist too, like Lughaidh, a Pheadair?<

Sort of a mostly self-taught one.

B.A. 1982
Major: English (Linguistics option)
Minor: Spanish

http://www.daltai.com/discus/messages/20/13338.html#POST19426

that -amh- is not a diphthong, but a vowel and a consonant.

Likewise initial amh- is [ãβ] in words like [ãβil´] amhail; but exceptionally [o:] in [o:ra:n] amhrán; and -mhar- is reduced to [ŋ] in [aŋk] amharc (spelled "amhanc" in the original edition, at least, of "Pádhraic Mháire Bhán"); cf. [kuŋ] cumhang (with short -u-; but now "cúng" in the "standard" spelling).

"that -amh- is not a diphthong, but a vowel and a consonant."
-Peadar

I know there are di & trithongs. Are there quadthongs and cinqthongs?

> But the pentaphthong must surely be as fabled as the unicorn.

I've got a sudden urge to create a conlang filled with tetra- and pentaphthongs, perhaps spoken by a race of intelligent unicorns.
;-) Maybe even a few hexaphthongs.

http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0008b&L=conlang&D=0&P=41195
__________

There are triphthongs, tetraphthongs, pentaphthongs, hexaphthongs, heptaphthongs, and even octophthongs.

http://rudhar.com/foneport/en/not2port.htm#Note16c-VowelStretch

"There are triphthongs, tetraphthongs, pentaphthongs, hexaphthongs, heptaphthongs, and even octophthongs"
-R. Harmsen.

Jeez...!